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Socialized Medicine - Who has it - What do you think?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by simplyg123, Mar 21, 2008.

?

Do you have socialized medicine AKA universal healthcare? What do you think of it?

  1. yes its great

    19 vote(s)
    38.8%
  2. yes it stinks

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  3. no but i wish i did

    7 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. no, its an awful idea

    15 vote(s)
    30.6%
  5. undecided

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
  6. Im an idiot

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #301
    Jeez, dude, I realize you pursued Rob to secure my banning, and, when, in an effort to move on, I contacted him and just asked him to do what he thought best, he responded with first an "I don't give a damn," in so many words, and secondly, with an, well...let's just call it an entertaining appraisal of the entire issue, and I'll leave it at that.

    But seriously - one, not sure how your over the top posting of a private message between yourself and an admin helps anything, including your point, and, two, weren't you the fella that took a self-righteous delight over my one-time lapse in judgment, in posting private communications with a DP member online? You think it's now groovy to out a private communication?

    At any rate, my latter-day involvement in this thread was not to or with you. It was to the subject of this thread, namely, the concept of public financing of healthcare. That you call my posts slander of yourself speaks to both your incredibly out of control ego, I guess, and the truly tragic errors in your thinking.

    I'm afraid I will respond should you slyly again insist on intimating or naming my legitimately construed point of view as "slander," or anything else designed to malign my person.
     
    northpointaiki, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  2. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #302
    I take a more electic view - because I do accept the notion of social goods. Given that, it seems to me it is a judgment call for us, as a society, to deem what we think should be something available to all, as a national need. Most, except those holding an anarchist view, feel police, fire and national defense fall into this category, that these should be publically funded. Many reject the notion that the same should be said for healthcare; I believe we can try to achieve what has worked fairly well in many countries, a national system of healthcare that addresses both legitimate health delivery and the potential for abuses potentially endemic to any other public need.
     
    northpointaiki, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  3. earthfaze

    earthfaze Peon

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    #303
    We aren't going to change each others minds. Philosophical differences.
     
    earthfaze, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  4. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #304
    Whatever gave you that idea? :D
     
    northpointaiki, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  5. earthfaze

    earthfaze Peon

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    #305
    I can only run in circles for so long lol. Social goods and services exist. Some of them, in many places, work very well. It is an economic discussion. Has to do with money. No great idealogical commitment. It is sound economic advice to have social goods and services. Yeah it gets out of hand. Yeah police brutality, inefficient or underfunded services and ill maintained or constructed goods etc. But I see no reason economically or historically to assume getting rid of all of them is a good idea, anyway back to the point of the thread, I think medical social services are good and we should spend more tax money on it.
     
    earthfaze, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  6. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #306
    We are running a deficit and are only one generation away from not only being bankrupt, but being liquidated.

    So how can you possibly maintain that we should spend more money we don't have on it? That's the illogic to socialism. It's predicated on limitless spending, or as Marx envisioned, a "socialist man" who would gladly work 60 hours per week to maintain a system where he only got 30 hours worth of goods and services due to redistribution. Marx thought that man would evolve a social class of self enslaved super men to be the plowhorses in the fields of society.

    But obviously it is a pipe dream. Returning to the 70% tax rates of the past will cause rioting in this country, and an exodus of it's most skilled entrepreneurs and laborers.

    Obviously I support having steak for every meal, driving a Ferrari and living in a 40 room castle. But it's not economically feasible and neither is covering everyone, particularly in light of all of the other commitments we have already piled up.
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  7. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #307
    I was reading more about Obama's national health care plan. He says he can fund it by not giving tax cuts to the super wealthy. Here are some things I really like...
     
    Rebecca, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  8. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #308
    Right. He also says he is going to introduce competition by price controls

    In other words, he's going to nationalize health care, by putting the free market on a short leash.

    Here is an idea. How about everybody in government, including Obama, take a 40% pay cut, and Obama can return all of the money he has received from lobbyists in the last 4 years? You know, before they punish private health care companies, many of which are held through the stock market by private citizens as part of their retirement plans, maybe Obama should reach into his pocket first.

    Last seen with Goober Brownback fighting AIDs at a church. :rolleyes:

    The word "tax" does not appear ONCE on this page
    http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

    This is just more managed care nonsense. Which is fine. The 20, 30, 40 something crowd (and the children of those people) cheering for this will come to regret these moves when the bill comes due.

    Saving Our Future Requires Tough Choices Today, Fiscal Wake-Up Tour
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  9. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #309
    In a deal largely constructed by Bernanke, JP Morgan will buy the US at like $5/share.
     
    LogicFlux, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  10. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #310
    Actually, to make this a really nerdy and funny joke, Bernanke will order the FED to lend JP Morgan the money to buy the US @ $5 a share. lol
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  11. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #311
    This is from FOX news...
    source

    This is from Obama's website...
    source
     
    Rebecca, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  12. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #312
    Does Obama promise a balanced budget?

    Because if not, he's just going to monetize the debt, which means he is going to pay for his budget with inflation, eroding the cost of living further.

    It's all smoke and mirrors. The government is incapable of outperforming the free market when it comes to competitive efficiency. That's why Obama is talking about putting price controls, by limiting how much insurers can make, which will trickle down and limit how much nurses, doctors and caregivers can make. That in turn will create shortages and reduce care levels.

    There are a couple of decent ideas in his plan, but on my quick skim, it reads like the rest of his plans.

    Obama will stop global warming with his bare hands.
    Obama will heal all of the pain in the universe with his soulfullness.
    Obama will turn water into wine, except on Sundays, when he will be bleeding from his stigmata.

    I'm not sure if people actually buy any of this crap.
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  13. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #313

    He'll join with Chuck Norris to defeat the national debt by kicking it in the nuts!
     
    LogicFlux, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  14. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #314
    Obama can do anything by saying "Yes we can". Flight. Resurrection. National Health care for a bankrupt country.

    Just close your eyes and keep repeating. Yes we can.
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  15. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #315
    Always makes sense to me, in a "recession", that we increase the tax burden on businesses to pull us out of it and increase the costs of employing people. That's some good economic sense right there!

    US already has the 4th highest corporate tax rate on the planet; only surpassed by Japan, Belgium and Italy. So let's add a little more burden. And then we can wonder why businesses move overseas or why jobs are being outsourced. Well there's your problem.

    What's funny is that many European countries are trying to become more business friendly by lowering taxes; we want to make ours less so with more taxes. Europeans are going away from big government environmental policies, we are embracing them. Europe is also trying to get rid of some of its social nets that have made the taxes too high while killing their middle classes, we are trying to enact more nets so that our middle class shrinks even further.
     
    lorien1973, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  16. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #316
    On CNN money they did an interesting comparison between economic proposals of both McCain and Obama. At the end of the article it states they are skeptical that either plan is fiscally sound.:eek: It is a good article that goes over some of the different beliefs both candidates have on the economy.
    CNN
     
    Rebecca, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  17. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #317
    I have a fiscally sound program.
    • Make all medical expenses tax deductible.
    • Eliminate federal regulations that discourage small businesses from providing coverage.
    • Give doctors the freedom to collectively negotiate with insurance companies and drive down the cost of medical care.
    • Make every American eligible for a Health Savings Account, and removing the requirement that individuals must obtain a high-deductible insurance policy before opening an HSA.
    • Reform licensure requirements so that pharmacists and nurses can perform some basic functions to increase access to care and lower costs
    Any complaints?
     
    guerilla, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  18. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #318
    Make more drugs OTC so you don't have to see a doctor to get a prescription for a relatively harmless drug.
     
    LogicFlux, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  19. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #319
    so much for the war on drugs
     
    ncz_nate, Jun 7, 2008 IP
  20. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #320
    the pharmacist is really your last line to make sure you aren't taking drugs with harmful interactions and also to make sure people aren't over-medicating as well. May as well offer up books to let people operate on themselves and really cut down on costs.
     
    lorien1973, Jun 7, 2008 IP