United States Heading towards a Depression?

I'm insecure.

FRIGGIN OBAMA FINANCIALS MAN!

IT'S OBVIOUS HE'S SNORTING COKE AGAIN!!!

 

Hurry up, short everything. Obama's gonna be the nominee tomorrow and John McCain is shooting himself in the foot with this speech. If its an indication of McCain's campaign, Obama will be our next presidential puppet.

 

There is no candidate with a magic wand that can immediately undue the impact of this recessionary environment. There are a ton of empty houses in foreclosure on the market. Even if the subprime problems stopped erupting the downward price movements on certain housing markets and size of the empty inventory is going to have a depressing financial impact on the US for a period of time.

I went back and reviewed some circumstances with regard to the last financially induced recession from the late 1980's into the 1990's. About 1/2 of America's S & L's and some banks went under between 1986 and 1995 even as the "recession period" was referenced to occur primarily around 1991, 1992. After the S&L's the industry that got hit the worst was commercial real estate. I'd bet that after the bottom hit....general price rebounds to the prerecession values didn't occur for possibly 5-8 years depending on the market. Residential real estate is significantly different but geez....prices don't go up when a ton of house are sitting empty.

Residential markets are very local in nature. Some of these markets will take years to relieve the downward pressure on prices. Meanwhile there are a heap of other problems including a huge federal debt, a weakening dollar, and significant inflation.

If any of you have a presidential candidate that can solve this stuff quickly let me know. If you seriously believe someone is gonna fix this easily I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

 

Ron Paul





Introduction
America became the greatest, most prosperous nation in human history through low taxes, constitutionally limited government, personal freedom and a belief in sound money. We need to return to these principles so our economy can thrive again. When enacted, my plan will provide both short-term stimulus and lay the groundwork for long-term prosperity.
Other candidates talk a lot about stimulus packages, but my record stands alone. I have fought for these measures for years as a member of Congress and will make them a top priority as president.

The Four-Point Plan

1. 
   [*]Tax Reform: Reduce the tax burden and eliminate taxes that punish investment and savings, including job-killing corporate taxes.
   [*]Spending Reform: Eliminate wasteful spending. Reduce overseas commitments. Freeze all non-defense, non-entitlement spending at current levels.
   [*]Monetary Policy Reform: Expand openness at the Federal Reserve and require the Fed to televise its meetings. Return value to our money.
   [*]Regulatory Reform: Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley regulations that push companies to seek capital outside of US markets. Stop restricting community banks from fostering local economic growth.

1. Tax Reform

• Eliminate Taxes on Dividends and Savings. The basis of capitalism is savings, and Americans who do so should be rewarded.
  • Pass HJ Res. 23 to encourage savings over consumption.
• Repeal the Death Tax. Attacking small businesses and breaking up family farms smothers growth and kills jobs.
  • Pass H.R. 2734 to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.
• Cut Taxes for Working Seniors. Grandmothers and grandfathers working to make ends meet should keep all the fruits of their labor.
  • Pass H.R. 191 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the inclusion in gross income of Social Security benefits.
• Eliminate Taxes on Social Security Benefits. That money belongs to seniors, not the government. They paid into the system for a lifetime, and they should be free to spend every penny as they see fit.
  • Pass H.R. 192 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the 1993 increase in taxes on Social Security benefits.
• Accelerate Depreciation on Investment. We need to help companies grow and create jobs.
  • Pass H.R. 4995 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to reduce corporate marginal income tax rates.
  
  [*]Eliminate Taxes on Capital Gains. Investment should be embraced and rewarded.
  • Pass H.J. Res 23 (The “Liberty Amendment”), proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.
  [*]Eliminate Taxes on Tips.The single parents and working students who earn their income chiefly through tips deserve to keep all of their money. This tax on "estimated income" is unfair and should be ended.
  • Pass H.R. 3664 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide that tips shall not be subject to income or employment taxes.
  [*]Support the Mortgage Cancellation Relief Act. Working families who lost their homes should not be punished a second time with a big IRS bill.
  • Pass H.R. 1876 to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to exclude from the gross income of individual taxpayers discharges of indebtedness attributable to certain forgiven residential mortgage obligations.

2. Spending Reform

• Reduce Overseas Military Commitments.Our bases and troops should be on our soil.
  • It's time to stop subsidizing our trading partners in Europe, Japan and South Korea.
• Freeze Non-Defense, Non-Entitlement Spending at Current Levels
  • I vote against all bloated, pork laden spending bills and will veto them as president.
    

3. Monetary Policy Reform

• Televise Federal Open Market Committee Meetings. An institution as powerful as the Federal Reserve deserves full public scrutiny.
• Expand Transparency and Accountability at the Federal Reserve
  • Pass H.R. 2754 to require the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to continue to make available to the public on a weekly basis information on the measure of the M3 monetary aggregate and its components.

• Return Value to Our Money. Legalize gold and silver as a competing currency.
  • Level the long-term boom and bust business cycle by passing H.R. 4683, which would repeal provisions of the federal criminal code relating to issuing coins of gold, silver, or other metal for use as current money and making or possessing likenesses of such coins.

4. Regulatory Reform

• Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley. It has seriously wounded our capital markets and helped make the UK a financial center at our expense.
  • Ending these misguided regulations would bring jobs flooding back to the United States
    
  • Pass H.R. 1049 to reform Sarbanes-Oxley and reduce the burden it places on small businesses.
• Repeal or Remove Costly and Unnecessary Federal Regulations. Neighbors know best how to help their neighbors.
  • We need to make it easier for community banks, credit unions, and other financial institutions to better serve their communities and to help people in these communities get access to credit and capital.
  • Pass H.R. 1869 to enhance the ability of community banks to foster economic growth and serve their communities, boost small businesses, increase individual savings, and for other purposes.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/prosperity/

 

Sounds good to me.

 

LEH could be a bad one. Monkies have really sharp teeth.

 

Add Wachovia to the list.

 

You support RP
Yet you disagree with this...

 

Nope. I support zero or almost no taxes.

Where did I give you the impression I support Capital Gains?

 

LEH is trying to raise 4 billion before the shit hits the fan

 

The great thing about Paul, unlike vacuous morons like Obama, Clinton and McCain, is that he is a real legislator, not a whore for the lobbyists.

He not only has an economic plan, it's concise, consists of already written legislation, most by him, some by others. It is actionable, it is precise, it is transparent.

If you read Obama's platform, it's "President Obama will do this, and President Obama will do that". No HOW. No Specifics. Nothing that can be disseminated, or analyzed.

Paul's plan is actionable regardless of who the President is. He's already laid the legislative groundwork. What bills do Obama, McCain or Clinton have to act upon? What are they bringing to the table from their time in the Senate?

They play a game with the American people. Elect us and we can fix the problem. If you don't elect us, the problem can't be fixed. Paul on the other hand says, elect me or not, this is how you save your a$$es economically. This is a universal plan, left or right of the political spectrum, to improve the American economy for EVERYONE.

Economics is a big part of the election. Yet we treat it unscientifically, and unseriously. Platitudes from corrupt windbags, instead of targeted, specific strategies.

I'm hoping CP Nominee Chuck Baldwin picks up Paul's Prosperity Plan, so it gets passed around, and seen by more people.

 

My apologies if I misunderstood or mistook previous posts for giving that impression. I was under the impression that you did not agree with an elimination of Capital Gains.

Ok, now I see where I got the impression... It looks like I mistook Bogarts statements for yours in this thread: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=771934&highlight=capital+gains&page=11

 

Well, I don't like them, but if we're going to assess capital gains, then it should account for inflation. Why should you be taxed on inflation? That's absolutely retarded IMO.

Sale price should be normalized to real values, then the profit can be ascertained for capital gains purposes.

So if I buy a $10 item today, and it is worth $250 in 100 years when I sell it, then there is probably no REAL gain (assuming that inflation continues as it has for the last 100 years). Under the current system, I would pay capital gains on my $240 profit. Which I think is absolutely stupid.

Btw, remove capital gains, and the trade in metals would pick up tremendously. That's Paul's angle. Give people an opportunity to invest in a store of value that can't be counterfeited like paper money.

 

The reason why that does not happen Guerilla? Because democrats believe anything you make, no matter what the reason, belongs to them. Democrats feel entitled to your earnings. They believe in the fundamental principle that those that make money are greedy, and have too much. They believe anyone making more than they feel is a fair amount do not deserve it and should give it to someone else.

Finally, democrats think they know better how to spend that money too... I mean hell, who am I to spend my own money? We don't know any better.. Thank God there are people like Obama out there, else I would never know how to spend my own money without their help.

 

Behind the falsification of US economic data
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jun2008/data-j02.shtml

This article specifically has to do with what I have argued over for sometime, originally with EarlPearl and more recently with Mia and Lorien.

The (sic) leading indicators are for the most part, lies. People are starting to clue into the government's chicanery and ask tough questions, best of all, tough questions about the money supply.

Anyway, that is a great article, please read it.

 

The Fed’s War on the Middle Class
http://mises.org/story/2983

Excerpt

 

I believe that capital gains should be taxed at the nominal rate but indexed for inflation. But, I would like to see dividends and interest tax free to give people an incentive to save and keep their own money.

However, I would rather see VAT 'consumption' taxes as oppossed to income taxes. Making money is good and shouldn't be taxed.

 

I'm against the inflation tax, where the government creates money out of thin air, debases the currency, and appropriates value from all savings in the economy.

That's the one that really f**ks us.

The second one is capital gains.

The third is income.

I don't prefer a VAT. Producing and consuming are necessary actions for human survival and happiness. I do not believe that survival or happiness should be taxed. I don't hate the rich, as long as they come by their money honestly, by what right do we have to confiscate their wealth, or punish them from conducting trade with that wealth?

 

Tax those that spend money, not those that make it. The ones making it, are generally the ones spending it btw.