Help! Refunds for software...how to decide

I need help. First, let me preface by saying this concerns phpLD. There is now somewhere in the neighborhood of 7000 successful installations of the software (including 2.0 and 3.0).

But occasionally I will get someone who says something like this:
1) I have run into some bugs, and your software should not have bugs, and therefore I should get a refund
2) The software doesn't do what I had hoped, so please give me a refund
3) It's too hard for me to figure out how to fix a problem, and I have better things to do with my time, so please give me a refund.

Here are a couple of notes about my situation, and some thoughts:
1) Once they have the software in their possession, I have no way to be sure they will not use it.
2) We have a support forum where they can get help
3) I always offer to help in the event of a problem they can't solve using the support forum
4) Worse case scenario: I will even offer to host their site temporarily until they can find a host that is better suited (never had to go that far)
5) Since software is "intellectual property", there is really no way they can "give it back"
6) They have access to demos on the site, and they can also ask "pre sales" type questions before purchasing.
7) I only charge $25 or $75 for a license. This is not a lot of money, there is little room to provide money back guarantees without raising the cost of the product.

Am I wrong to refuse to give ANYONE a refund?
If yes, what circumstances do you feel would constitute a refund?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide to me or to people requesting a refund. I may even direct people requesting refunds to this very thread.

Thanks!
David

 

Well, me being a phpld fanatic, and having absolutely no experience with this script or even Smarty for that matter prior to installation, I really have to step in here for 'my personal say so' in your defense.

I installed this script with no problems at all. And while I use dreamhost which has 1 little tick that needs tending too when installing, it wasn't hard to find resolution.

People want to run their own 'home brewed' servers, which they 'think' they know how to config, but like any novice, they don't know their a** from their elbow, and instead of trying to resolve their problem, or even take the advice of others(there is ALWAYS quite a bit of support on the phpld forums), they'd rather find justification in blaming someone else, to better help their newb egos. I've seen it on the phpld forums before, and unfortunately I know there will be more.

I rambled a bit, I know, but to answer your question i my own personal opinion, and based on my experience from the script(i have a hell of a site going)...I feel you are 150% justified in refusing a refund, because once it's distributed the end user now does possess the script, and can run off with it and do whatever and you'd never know about it. $25 for a script that does it's job, and does it VERY well, plus the friendships i've gained as well as the forum's support is well worth it.

Rob
(anon)

 

If you buy a script and can't make it work (due to incompetance or whatever reason) then you don't really have any right to expect a refund.

If the software had a bug and the supplier wasn't willing to fix it then thats another matter.

Your site offers a script for $25/$75 dollars and is quite clear about what it does. There isn't really any way for people to be confused about what they are getting.

 

You could put a big bold blurb up about trying before buying to make sure they download and get the free version working first before buying. If they can't get it working, or don't have time (don't download it!) or spot bugs they don't like, then don't buy it. Your software doesn't require alot of "time," nor do I find it buggy. Anyone who has never used a php/mysql application before *will* find that it may take some time, but this isn't your fault.

I buy software (runs from my machine) that the guy will give a refund on but he also gets my ip and it's written to a file on the server. I get a registration number as well. So if I did ask for a refund, he could disable that registration number and not allow it to be used.

Personally, I don't buy any software that I can't try first. If I like it, I'll buy it, regardless of whether I find "bugs" - that's the nature of software and I can't expect it to be perfect. And, I must say, I've never requested a refund for anything yet.

 

Actually, phpLD already has a "try before you buy" option: Install version 2 for free. If you like it and want the added benefits of version 3, pay the fee.

I would point out that the purchase of version 3 comes with a support forum and support from the authors. A lot of software doesn't offer that without an extra fee.

My vote: Don't refund. Maybe post a note prominently on the download page pointing out that version 2 is available as a "try before you buy" option but that no refunds will be given after purchase of version 3.

Future Shop and Best Buy have a similar policy for software, video games, DVDs, abd CDs, for obvious similar reasons.

 

You might want to expand the scope of your terms/license a little bit to say refunds are not available and "THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE" .... blah, blah, blah....

 

Thanks for all of your replies. This helps a lot.
It sounds like I am somewhat justified in not giving refunds, though it would be helpful if I provided a little more documentation.

As I have stated above, I am willing to help people get the script(s) installed, and even take extra measures to provide support.

 

I have invited one person who wishes to receive a refund participate in this thread. I definitely want to be fair with people, but as you can see above, I also try to do everything possible to make sure that all possible solutions are explored.

In this case, someone had a bug in part of the script, and did not feel they should have to spend time solving any problems, so that is why I invited them to participate in the discussion, because I consider all viewpoints, positive and negative, to be important in the future of phpLD.

 

Before I buy, I look for disclaimers that say if I buy it and for any reason not happy, either refund or no refund.
I just bought software earlier this week that does not work to my satisfaction, I asked for a refund. Still waiting!

Now, to your problems with refunds.
If you did not have a disclaimer in force at time of purchase saying that there is no refund, you are at the very least morally subject to a refund if asked.

I have had the same problem not once, but twice in the past week.
Buyers of sites I sold to them, wanted a refund because they could not get it to work on their servers.
Being an easy person to deal with, I just said...push the domain back to me and once I have the domain in my possession again, then I will refund your money.
Now, in both these cases, I knew the buyers, so I was not upset or mad at them, etc.
If it had been a noobie buying, I would have said, "tough titty!"

dvduval, it boils down to you, are you okay with giving these people a refund?

 

I totally and completely disagree.

IF the software did not perform as advertised, you might have a case. But it does, as 100s of installations can attest.

And what about the issue of, having paid for the right to download the software, how do you guarantee that the buyer doesn't collect his refund and use it anyway or sell it or give it away to someone else?

 

Agreed 100%.

The software does in fact do what it's suppose to, and with the simplest of installation instructions to boot.

And as Ive mentioned as well, you'll just never know what that individual will do once they have your script and their refund.

Even with the v2.0 script, I could STILL, have pulled off the same exact effect as what I currently have going with v3.03.

Bottom line is, the script is a godsend, and the newbz who cannot get this thing installed(even with the help they get), need to get off the interweb. It's just THAT easy. abc123.

 

I have made some additional statements in the User Agreement:
http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/articlescript/safe_index.php
Let me know what you think.

I agree that I am not obligated to issue refunds, because there was not agreement on a guarantee between the buyer and myself before the purchase.

For the record, I think I'm a pretty reasonable person, and have gone "overboard" on many occasions helping people. I can't make everybody happy, nor can I agree to issue refunds to every person who wants a refund. I won't say that I will never do it, but I feel it is in my best interest make it a very unusual occurence, and I have even gone so far as to offer to host a directory on my own hosting account to insure the buyer can have a working installation.

In the case above, the person has given me an ultimatum to refund the money or they said they plan to report me to the Better Business Bureau. I'm thinking at the very minimun I will require a written letter from them, and will charge a "processing fee". Also note: I have offered to install it, and provide free hosting, and they turned me down, and said they bought another product.

Am I thinking straight here?

 

If you kept copies of the emails, if the BBB contacts you, send them a copy of each email, yours to him, his to you.
Then someone in the BBB will have a good laugh, throw the case out, and tell the idiot to move on with his life.

PS...BBB can do nothing at all to stop you from selling. All they can do is somewhere on their site is put something to the effect that you have a complaint against you and for a customer to be aware of this complaint.

 

I agree, iowadawg. The BBB will inform the individual that he doesn't have a case. The software performs as advertised. That can easily be proved. therefore, there was no deception, no false advertising, no misleading statements. The individual is simply incompetent.

If I buy an automobile and then discover I can't drive it because I don't know how to drive, do you really expect the auto dealer would refund my money? And if I complained to the BBB, do you honestly think they would waste more than about 3 minutes on telling me I didn't have a case?

 

You're definetly not obligated to, not sure about the internet laws, but I know in the states if it's sold to a minor you're required by law to give them a refund, but that may only be physical stores.

anyways, offer a service where you can get people to install it for them (for a price of course) that's what movabletype does.

 

Do a refund and move on, some people are professional refunders and you can't do a thing about it.

 

IMO, I think that if you were offering software that did not work, or had a bug that you would not, or could not fix, then you are obligated to refund the money. That IS NOT the case with phpLD.

phpLD has already been proven that it works, and if there is a bug found, you are willing and can fix it. So, they really have no leg to stand oon when asking for a refund.

You cannot help or predict the actions of the script on every type of environment. There is not a piece of software around that is promised to work on every system or server.

I think that if you provide a basic list of requirements for the software, you will be covered in almost every case, should it not work for a person.

 

So your policy would be that the customer is wrong but pay him off anyway to avoid annoyance?

 

1) Depends on the bug, if its because of server in-compatibility and you state server requirement before they buy the script then i would say no refund its there fault for not reading requirements.

2) If you offer a demo of the script and demo of the admin area, they can try before they buy, if you do have demos then again its no.

3) It depends on the problem, if you offer support and they are too lazy to use it, then no refund.

1) If you know there name/domain/email do a search on them, check out there domains and see if they are running it or not. Like if you search for a domain on alexa (in the example i used my site) it gives a list of other sites own by this person. (althought the list it does show is incomplete and shows some domains i have sold it might help)

2) If they are too lazy to use it, its there problem, no script/software is 100% , however you could also include with the software a useful "how to" or a link to an online manual.

3) same as above.

4) As siad in the first answers i put if they dont read requirements first then its their problem not yours.

5) yep.

6) if thats the case i would not refund because they realise its not what they want.

7) there are many people that will try to use your software for free without license, a money back gurantee would annoy loyal member (because of the raise in price) and encourage the pirates because they can get your sources codes then get there money back without giving their copy of the script back.

My suggestion would be is make a license agreement page (before the payment page) where they have to agree to everything first. (like when you register for forums you have to agree to the rules etc)

hope that helps

 

For the record, I offered this person:
1. Free setup and support
2. Free hosting
3. Help trouble shooting
4. A refund minus a 30% prrocessing fee.

They refused me on all counts, and told me they were going to the BBB.
I don't care about the BBB, because I have a reasonable explantion.

I have added a lot more to the user agreement in the software to further protect me in the future.

Some people are not willing to take responsibility for their actions. In this case, I am requiring them to send me a written letter and make their paypal account verified. That will at least make them take a little responsibility, which they failed to do so far.

But when I think about it, I don't have time for people like this, and I need to move on.