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FBI : 2 Terrorist organisation.. do think they terrorists ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ziya, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #21
    Techman:
    Are you pretending that you don't understand, or do you really not get it?
    Let me ask you, if you are driving along and hit a dog, would your reaction be to take a butcher knife and kill every dog you see?
     
    Rebecca, Apr 4, 2008 IP
  2. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #22
    Ok wait, I didn't mean to offend you :eek: but I think you're missing something.

    To answer your question: if I kill a dog, (considering I didn't mean to) I'd learn from that and drive in ways that will ensure I don't run more of them over in the future.

    Now here's my question:

    Let's assume you need to make it across this 50-mile forest. You know that there's a huge population of dogs, rabbits and other creatures that live here. The forest ranger gives you three options:

    1) Easiest: Drive through in a monster truck (guaranteed to run over LOTS of animals).

    2) Medium: Use a cheap-ass car (run over fewer animals; ones that accidentally come your way... they will.)

    3) Most inconvenient: Walk the entire length (you kill no animals).


    Vegetarians would rather take the 2nd route... after all, you're only killing them by accident, right? But are you really off the hook? When you're clearly given an option to not kill animals at all, you don't take it because it's much too inconvenient for you.

    And because I'm taking the monster truck, you're telling me I'm worse off than you are. Maybe I am, but the fact is, we're still just two peas in a pod; we're all killers.

    My intention is not to belittle vegetarians... it's just that I get pissed when the veggie league begins preaching about how meat eaters are somehow guiltier because they don't live by the same unreasonable code of ethics as the vegetarians.

    PETA? Pshaw.
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Apr 4, 2008 IP
  3. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #23
    I don't know any vegetarians (that do it on a moral basis) that would knowingly choose option #2. The argument that is being made is that if some animals are accidently killed in crop harvesting, it becomes morally correct to kill animals on a massive scale. I disagree. I do agree though, that we are not "off the hook". Some vegetarians do come off as overly righteous and I believe it is counterproductive to the cause. We should not exclude or have a "who is more righteous contest". If someone rescues an abused dog, is the act of kindness any less depending on if you are a vegetarian or a meat eater? We all can help lessen cruelty in the world in many ways.
     
    Rebecca, Apr 4, 2008 IP
  4. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #24
    Ok, you made me smile :)


    Let me highlight:

    Hmm... "morally correct"? I don't remember myself or any other peace-loving meat-muncher saying it was "morally correct." Let me refine the statement here...

    Which means I am neither obligated nor interested in contorting my fundamental beliefs in favor of false gratification from doing nothing more than telling people how to live their lives while being responsible for a shipload of cruelty myself and being too much of a hypocrite to admit that there's much more I can do to further my cause but to do those things would be to give up my much too comfortable lifestyle.

    Ok, while I hate to attack people personally, let me ask YOU this question: Do you sow and harvest your own food?

    If the answer is no, then you're on OPTION #2. Zip. Case closed.

    If you don't mind me saying, do you realize how many animals you could be saving RIGHT NOW by growing your own food in your home garden? Even if it is impossible to grow EVERYTHING you need at home, there's lots of vegetables you can personally harvest and live on, by doing which you will have minimized the suffering of many animals. I don't know you personally but I have a hunch you would never do that even though you know deep within that your "moral guilt" would be much lighter if you did.


    And yes, I do agree that there should be no "righteousness" contest. However, since you're looking for ways to "lessen cruelty in the world," here's something I found for you:

    http://www.hoptechno.com/book26.htm

    Enjoy.


    Peace and blessings,
    Techman


    P.S: I just read the GoVeg.com article and it's sickening that so many animals have to be tortured. So why not just fight for the betterment of their living conditions in slaughterhouses? The argument that going veg' would solve the problem is like saying "let's stop educating our kids because there aren't enough desks in classrooms."
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Apr 4, 2008 IP
  5. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #25
    People are not becoming vegetarians out of some bizarre desire to tell others how to live. They usually do it out of love and respect for animals and are not really concerned by what you think or don't think. As a vegetarian, I have met many preachy judgemental meat eaters. I usually don't even offer up that information that often. Meat eaters get all weird and immediately on the defensive, when you are not even trying to sell them on it. It gets old after awhile.

    So we all need to be perfect in every way before we can be allowed to be vegetarians? Umm, ok. In a twisted logic, if vegetarians eat wheat that was mechanically harvested and harms some rodents, then how can we complain about mass murdering them in factory farms? Sorry Techman, I still don't agree with you and I think both are wrong. Actually, many vegetarians are concerned about crop harvesting. PETA is not the spokesperson for all vegetarians, and many of them are looking for answers. There is talk that wheat is the main crop that is harvested that way, and alternatives that are not. In addition, there is the concern of pesticide being harmful and many are trying to buy organic. I'll be honest, I wasn't really aware of the situation, but I do plan on boycotting wheat at this time. That by itself should help the animals that are hurt by crop harvesters. That obviously will not stop all the suffering in the world, and there is a lot of it in both human and animal. On my end I can only do my best, yet I will never be perfect. That doesn't mean I will shut up when an animal is being abused, sorry if that disappoints you.
     
    Rebecca, Apr 5, 2008 IP
  6. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #26
    Wait a minute... are you linking abuse to murder? It seems like most people are doing that these days. Animal murder is necessary, not only because I need more protein but because we need to keep them numbered.

    Overpopulation of any species will hurt the ecology of the planet. Look at the humans for example; they've taken over the planet, hurt every other species that ever existed in their own time and it doesn't look like they're going to stop until the they've sucked the earth dry.

    So with that said, why not try to help limit human overpopulation if you want to help animals out? I know you're pissed with my arguments, but for a second, think about this logically... if you can give away 1000 free condoms a month and (by a conservative estimate) you only prevent 20 births, think about how much meat you've saved! Those twenty people could've led to the suffering of thousands of animals (meat, woolen clothing etc etc etc) and you've just prevented that.

    If PETA and other champions of vegetarianism would stop flashing their banners in the faces of people who want to have a damn piece of meat, and focused instead on building awareness about birth control, I'm sure they'd go a long way towards achieving their objective.

    Would you argue that this is one of the most effective ways to help both animals, our own species, AND the earth itself? I mean, yes, I do applaud your passion, but when there's a way to do things more effectively, why not go that route instead of making other people feel bad?

    If you do argue that this would never be enough, then why not add this to your existing agenda? Do you want to do everything you can to "limit" animal suffering or don't you?


    And getting back to my original point, you will NEVER get everyone (or even most people) to stop eating meat. This is not only because of our omnivorous nature, but also because we need to keep other species numbered. There's no way around it unless the collective consciousness of the entire planet undergoes a major change that includes "unconditional love," "realization of self" and all that other hippy stuff.

    So yeah, do the next best thing and work to keep animals happy and healthy in slaughterhouses...

    And start handing out condoms today.

    Peace and blessings,
    Techman
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Apr 5, 2008 IP
  7. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Pictures from animalliberationfront :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Dont understand why do FBI calling A.L.F terrorist organisation ?
     
    ziya, Apr 5, 2008 IP
  8. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #28
    I don;t think there is anything immoral about killing animals for food and i would be interested in how many of these "vegetarians" buy leather products and use medicine (and makeup for women) which has been tested on animals. Also, How many eat gummy bears and other products that contain gelatin.

    But let's look at it realistically. How possible is it to live in a world where nobody eats meat. People need on average 2500 calories a day. This is what is required to stay healthy and able to move. 570 grams of carrots contain 200 calories. So if England, for example, A country of 6 million people, Were to become entirely vegetarian we would need the equivalent of 72,000 tons of carrots every day, Just to survive.
    America would need 372,000 tons a day and globally we would need to produce 72 million tons, Every day.
     
    stOx, Apr 5, 2008 IP
  9. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #29
    I like to eat sheep, hen, fish.. I can say I am eating everyday meat :)
     
    ziya, Apr 5, 2008 IP