Link Buying - what to know ?

Hi folks,

I'm going to pose a very self serving and obvious question here that may work for many on this forum. I've been considering buying some linkage, and although I've seen it happen, watched outcomes etc, I myself have not taken the risk of investing in such activies. Moreover, I've heard from some very dissapointed ppl who've bartered, bid, bought, etc only to find the whole exercise was a waste of time.. primarily because they failed to properly assess the risks.

It seems to me that ppl (myself included) need to understand exactly what to expect from link purchasing. I personally am familiar with the risks, what can and can't be assured, and what would (for me) pose a significant asset in terms of linkage. But I also believe there are many here who are more intimately familiar with the subject of link purchasing, and could offer some really good ideas/input.

To this end, I've decided to start this thread, and attempt to compile a list of "qualifiers", or questions one should ask themselves about a proposed link purchase. Once this thread has essentially run it's course, I'll compile this data (more a questionnaire really), and make it available for all to grab as a handy reference, much as Bob did with his handy dandy PR map (which I've found immensely useful BTW).

Also, no doubt there will be those of you with sites/interests that facilitate link purchasing etc. This would be the perfect opportunity for you to link to your sites, providing yet more info for interested parties to consume (just remember to link directly to risk analysis/unique selling proposition type info if you have it).

For the purpose of the questionnaire, we're assuming a proposed buy of 250 PR5-6 links for a period of 3 months.

Here's a few basic questions to kick off with:

Basics
How frequently are the linking pages crawled, and by whom (G|Y|I)
What is the distribution (Ratios of: seperate IP's, seperate domains, inernal pages)
Average link count per linking page
Themes of linking pages vs themes of home pages
Is leading and trailing text permitted with links
Stability of PR per linking pages (historical PR info)

Link Management
Are these links randomized site-wide or managed on a page by page basis.
Are these links included with every page impression

Looking ahead (G Relative)
Are any of these sites considered authoritative in their field
What are their engine footprints (ie how many indexed pages currently on G)

FEATURES to look out for in the future
Linkage pricing is typically indexed by PR, yet even those with particularly stable PR's are not willing to adjust pricing if PR falls or rises during the purchased period. In the scenario above, we purchase a block for three months, and during this time we may see 6 google updates.

I believe the pricing should be adjusted per update. This would eliminate around 90% of the risk involved. This would of course require micro management, but a site that offers this would no doubt prove quite attractive to those who simply want a reliable solution in terms of ROI.


more..

Hey Shawn.. is there a prize for the DP's longest post ?

 

A very nice idea

As I know sweet FA about buying links I will follow this thread with interest, as I am sure many will, and learn, I hope, a lot!

 

I buy and sell links. I like to think of it as advertising rather than just buying and selling PR.

The obsession with PR is not justified in my opinion. There are two aspects to a link as far as the SEs are concerned. (BTW PR only effect Google and you are asking in your questions about other SEs.) The most important aspect of links I believe is the relevance factor. Today this is determined to a very large extent by anchor text. In the future the theme or content of the page on which the link is placed will undoubtedly become important. But I don't think it is today.

Now let me respond to some of your specific questions.

Basics
How frequently are the linking pages crawled, and by whom (G|Y|I)
I have log reporting for all my sites and I couldn't answer this question with any degree of accuary. All I can tell you is how fast a new page added to any of these sites gets indexed on average. If I add a new page to my InfoPool Google will often index it within 24 hour, normally within 48 hours and always within 72 hours. Even if I knew how often Y or I bots visit that is not necessarily an indication of how soon a newly placed link is going to be indexed.

What is the distribution (Ratios of: seperate IP's, seperate domains, inernal pages)
Normally you will be talking about links from a single page or a single site. These questions would only seem to be relevant to a deal involving the placement of links across a range of sites. I don't think separate IPs is the issue although all the sites I place links on have uniques IPs. The issue with IPs if it exists -- hilltop, local rank etc. -- is IP blocks, not individual IPs.

Unless someone just says I'll sell you X number of links without explanation then I think you would always know about separate domains.

As far as internal pages goes if I sell you "run of the site" links you can only have one from the home page. So if I tell you I'll sell you 500 links from 5 web sites, by simple logic 495 of the links must be from internal pages.

Average link count per linking page
That's a good question. I limit paid links to 10 per page.

Themes of linking pages vs themes of home pages
I'm not sure what the value of this information is today. But I think this is research the buyer should do if interested. I'm not sure how a webmaster who is selling links would even present this information.

Is leading and trailing text permitted with links
The only time this is normally allowed is when links are placed on link pages. I don't think anyone is going to buy links on "link pages".

Stability of PR per linking pages (historical PR info)
I think this is more paranoia than reality. PR doesn't vary that much. And as I said above the PR of a linking page is only one aspect of the link. And how many people do you know who keeps or has "historical PR info" on all his pages?

Link Management
Are these links randomized site-wide or managed on a page by page basis.
Are these links included with every page impression
This information would be part of the link negotiation or deal. What you obviously want is to have your link added as a permanent feature of each page you contract for and to be available to the viewer or the bots on every presentation. However I think this is the normal treatment of text links. It seem to me it is only banners that get rotated.

Looking ahead (G Relative)
Are any of these sites considered authoritative in their field
How would this be proven or established.

What are their engine footprints (ie how many indexed pages currently on G)
Well if the pages aren't indexed you don't want links from then, unless they are brand new pages that will get indexed in the next couple of days. However, can you see a webmaster who is in the link selling business say "I'll sell you 500 links on my site, but oh BTW I only have 50 pages indexed by the SEs"?

FEATURES to look out for in the future
Linkage pricing is typically indexed by PR, yet even those with particularly stable PR's are not willing to adjust pricing if PR falls or rises during the purchased period. In the scenario above, we purchase a block for three months, and during this time we may see 6 google updates.
As I said above PR doesn't vary that dramatically. Would you also agree to pay more if the PR went up over the contract period? I believe that anybody in the link selling business will be working to improve the quality and value of his sites, so the chances are that you will be getting a better deal over time. For instance I'm adding pages regularily to my InfoPool. If I you have a "run of the site " deal with me you will automatically be getting additional links over the period of our deal.

Now as to a three month purchase I think that is virtually worthless. If links are going to work for you they should be permanent. If you have read about the sandbox effect it may take 3 months for the full value of the links to kick in, so you might be totally wasting you money with a 3 month only purchase.

The normal deal is either monthly or annually. I normally charge on a monthly basis and the buyer is free to have his links removed at any time that s/he thinks they are not working, but my expectation is that you will continue to pay for the links as long as you own or operate the target site.

 

Hi Compar,

You've certainly elaborated on the questions posed. It's indeed important to realize that links are more significant than their PR alone, however it's PR on which the pricing is indexed, hence PR becomes pivotal in evaluating the prospect, regardless of the engine.

The few questions I've posed so far are about addressing the not so obvious, like Webmasters who've gone and bought (by way of linkage) a PR8, and are attempting to onsell internal PR7-6-5s etc knowing full well that thier dependancies come down to just a few paid, high PR links (vs a broadly distributed high volume base which is less likely to be disrupted if the cashflow dries up, or situations change). I agree that PR stability can't be proven - hence the indexed price - and yes - just like adwords, you set your spend - if the PR goes up or down, why shouldn't the price ?

Oh, yes ! - spot on about the IP Blocks - I missed that, thx

Are there any questions you'd add to the list ?

Great feedback BTW !

 

I haven't seen any real evidence of that. Can you show me anybody who publishes a sliding scale of prices based on PR?

If I sold you 500 run of the site links would you expect a separate price for every link depending on the PR of each individual page? Think of the admintrative effort of monitoring the PR variations of 500 pages. The suggestion is unworkable.

And why would anybody artificially inflate their site as you suggest and then let it suddenly deflate. He might have your money, but he wouldn't get the next guy's money.

Pay for your links on a monthly basis. If the site goes to hell as you suggest then simply stop paying. What risk is there in this? I think you are seeing boggy men and dire consequences where none really exist.

 

Yes, index was a bad word to use, given the initial context - I actually meant that links are typically priced according to PR, rather than a sliding scale. The point remains however that regardless of engine, PR is obviously pivotal.

This is a good question. It's not at all implausible to track 500 pages PR wise after an update. In fact, I'm aware of scenarios where 1000's of pages are tracked just like this. Shawns tool could prolly do it with a tweak or two. But again, you're right in that it does imply additional management - as I stated in the initial post - micro management in fact. I certainly wouldn't expect individual webmasters to do it though. I should imagine it would be the role of a links barter/trade website.

Paying on a monthly basis is a great idea - that's most likely how I'd prefer to do it. As I implied above it's about dependancies. And I've seen more than one complaint on this forum about purchased PR going south.

 

What's the general opinion on the seller giving the buyer access to the actual web statistics?

I think if you just buying links for the value of the link the actual stats would not be all that useful. If you're buying the text link for the value of the link ,and, hope to get a small amount of traffic from it too the stats would be of more value.

 

But that is what your own logs are for. You can tell where you traffic is coming from.

You and john are placing a hell of a burden on the link seller. I personally don't think s/he has to jump through all these hoops. There are lots of people out there willing to buy links on the basis of the normal trust that happens during the investigation and negoiation phase.

Buying links isn't really a life changing transaction. Talk to the web master. Look at his site. Check his PR if you like. Make sure all his pages are indexed. Make a deal that includes monthly payments, and go.

If you take a completely anal approach to this you will never make a decision. You will waste months angonizing over it and loose all the benefit that can accrue from having links to your site.

Take a flyer. Buy $100 worth of link for a month. Monitor the results. If you aren't comfortable at the end of the first or second month quit paying for them.

I just don't understand the huge risk you are so worried about. As Nike says "just do it".

 

Asking a webmaster for traffic figures is in my view perfectly OK if they're selling the link on a traffic basis. If they're selling it on a PR basis, it's prolly not that relevant.

 

Please remember compar this is just about a series of questions that may or may not be relevant/appropriate for the particular buy, but nontheless may become relevant in particular circumstances - remember I'm compiling a list of questions here - something to help inform the link buyer.

It's funny really how the whole linkage story changes - how many posts have i read on this forum where ppl seeking linkage advice have received detailed instructions on everything from where to place them to anchor text to length, to well, you name it. Yet at the end of the day it's "As Nike says, just do it" !

Things can change compar - and quickly. It really is a case of buyer beware, no matter how "life changing" it is. Just ask those who've lost out. I mean, take for example a new directory with PR8. You go buy a marketing link on the strength of the Homepage PR alone, with the **assumption** that during the next update, you'll see a PR7 propagate to the marketing page. In most cases, it would, but how would the uninitiated judge it ? What would they use to inform their decision - a leap of trust/faith in a webmaster they don't know, or a few weighted questions that might help clarify things ?

Yes - you're right. But this isn't about being anal. It's about covering the bases. I think from what you've said so far - I'll not so much add a question, as perhaps a weighting to the significance of them. Oh one other thing - these questions aren't necessarily going to be asked of the provider. Some of them may become self evident after a simple, brief enquiry. Either way, it's good to have a reference.

Thx

Anyone else ? (I've not seen any additional questions added to the mix yet - remember, this isn't about driving providers mad, it's about covering all the bases for the buyer. The buyer then decides what's relevant and what's not)

 

nice topic... helpful replies...

though one more question:
how much would it cost to buy 5 site-wide links with pr of homepage of 6-7? (on monthly bassis)

 

i have a question here.i know primarily,people buy links to increase the traffic/sales of their sites.my question is,are there any other reasons why people would want to buy links?

 

It probably depends on how many pages in the site. I have 115 pages in my InfoPool. The index page was PR6 until this last update where Google has dropped it to PR5. All the individual articles are PR4 to PR6. I charge $100 per month for "run of site" link on these 115 pages.

 

I think you have missed the point. The primary reason people buy links is to try and convince the search engines of the importances and relevance of the page so that it will get high placement in the SERPs.

There is always some click through activity from links, but generally pretty low, and this traffic would rarely justify the price of the links.

 

It depends. In my experience sites like yours with a high (95%+) deep link ratio do actually provide a significant number of click throughs on site-wide text links. Sites with low deep link ratios will often provide only a handful of click throughs I agree.

- Michael

 

ah okay.thanks for the clarification.so the payment of advertising on a site is based on what? the PR of the site?

 

Many factors, PR is one, positions of the ad on the page (is it above the fold?), website traffic... and so on.

 

thanx compar

 

So, which link selling website has quality links that I can buy from?

To Compar: which one is reliable?

 

You should checkout Linkworth there's some affordable text link ads in their inventory.