Help Amazon Wants To Steal My Domain

Whether it's trademark infringement or not this is the bottom line:

1. The program does not allow traffic to come from domain names that contain "AMAZON" in them.

2. Yours does.

3. Even if you redirect the traffic to go through another link, merely changing the "referrer" if you will.....

4. Then your traffic still originates from number 1.

5. Therefore you're still at number 2....

6. Still against the rules.

I wouldn't give them the domain, I would just save it...

 

We are not talking about copyrights, but rather Trademarks and Servicemarks.

What you state isn't true. Amazon.com OWNS the rights to the name "Amazon" for a specified use - the .com has nothing to do with it. When you file for a trademark or servicemark, you do so by CLASSIFICATION - and there are over 40. Techncially, you don't even need to file to have usage rights, you have to be the first one to use it in that manner.

It's like "Apple" Computers. The OWN the right to use the word "Apple" in anything that is related to computers. It doesn't matter if you add 10 words after Apple, it's any use of Apple(relating to computers) that is infringement. If someone had registered "Apple.com" and talked about fruit, there is nothing Apple inc could do about it. The minute you started talking about computers, the usuage becomes infringement - and you can be sued. "Amazon.com" owns the rights to the word "Amazon" as a web related business. Because the name includes Amazon and Web, the mere combination is infringement regardless of the content on the site. If the domain name was AmazonInfo.com - and it was about rivers, it wouldn't be infringement.

The name has already infringed upon the Amazon rights to use it in a web related ecommerce business. Once you infringe, you are liable for damages. It doesn't matter if you stop using it, the infringement has already taken place.

When you have a registered trademark, you can go to ICANN and say "Look, someone is infringing upon my trademark and ICANN will take the name away from the current owner. This is what happened to Madonna.com. The singer didn't "own" the rights to any use of the name, but when the former owner of the domain used it to profit by making references to the singer, it became infringement. This is why he lost the domain. Had the site never talked about the singer, it wouldn't have been infringement and he would still own the domain today. It was the usage and content of the site that cost him the domain name.

Amazon has sent notification that the name "AmazonWebShop" is infringing upon their trademark. If you sell the name to someone else, make sure you disclose that Amazon has contacted you and told you to turn over the name and get a release from that person, otherwise when Amazon goes after them, the first thing they are going to do is sue you for fradulent representation. Amazon can already sue you for infringement. Even if your position is that it isn't infringement, fighting a huge company like Amazon will cost well over a hundred thousand dollars (I've done it with another large retailer). Even if you were to win, you don't get to recover your legal fees.

Trademark law can be complicated, but the first thing you should do when registering a name is to ask yourself "Am I registering the domain because of an existing usuage i.e. am I attempting to ride the goodwill established by another company or could it be reasonably argued that someone who sees the domain name and/or content and think there could be an association?" If the answer is yes, you are infringing upon someone elses rights. You have no rights to a name because someone has never registered the domain before. Clearly you used the word "Amazon" because of Amazon.com - not because you were doing a site about the river. That is what is not allowed without express permission from the owner of the trademark.

If you do not turn over the name to Amazon, a few things could happen.

Amazon could sue you for the infringement that has already taken place, and/or
Amazon could go to ICANN and take the domain away.
Amazon could decide to do nothing as long as the name isn't being used.

I don't care what you do, but they have basically made you an offer that they will not go after you for the past infringement if you give them the name and they will also allow you to continue to be an affiliate under a different name. From past experience, I know the only real winners are the attorney's who will make a small fortune out of a dispute. Trademark laws says the owner of a trademark or servicemark must take action against someone who is infringing upon their name or they risk losing their trademark. This is why these large companies go after the little guy.

 

Sometimes a name can be so unique, that any use of it would be considered infringement. In this case, it would NOT be infringement because they have had the name PRIOR to google (since early 1997), and aren't using it in a manner that would confuse someone. What they couldn't do, is change the content of the site to talk about google's publisher program.

I own several registered trademarks - one is a four letter word - and I also have a servicemark on it. I've had uncontestable rights to the name for over 10 years, but someone else own the .com. I have no rights or claim to the domain because they are using it in a manner that has nothing to do with my trademark classification. If they changed the content of the site to something similar to my usage rights, then it would be infringement.

 

alright thanks loads for the explanation. learnt alot

so as long as a TM is used in a way that would be confused or associated with the original owner without permission, it constitutes an infringement?

say, if I use the name Dell i would be infringing, no matter what i use it for, since Dell is only associated with Michael Dell?

 

Yes, but of course that is also something that could be argued. What many people don't realize is that usage rights belong to the first person to use, and continue to use a name in a particular manner. (There are name that cannot be claimed or trademarked i.e. you can't file for "Apple Pie" and then try to prevent anyone from selling a baked good by that name).

Having a trademark doesn't give you any more legal rights to a name. You are responsible for discovering if anyone has already used a particular name. This is the part that can cause problems. There are trademark search firms that charge hundreds of dollars to look for prior usage - but it still isn't a guarantee.

Say you had an idea to start a company called "Blue Widgets Computers" and you checked for a trademark or servicemark (and there were none). You then searched public records and the Internet and couldn't find anyone who had used that name before. You then paid a trademark search company to look for prior usage and they weren't able to find any, so you start up "Blue Widget Computers" and then file for a trademark on it.

To get a Federal Trademark, you must already be using a name. You then file in one or more of the 40 plus classifications that apply. It will cost you about $600 per classification to file if you do it yourself. Attorney fees would be additional.

The trademark office will then assign an examiner to look at the name. They will check only existing trademarks (they don't look anywhere else). They will also check for foreign spellings and similar spellings (i.e. Azul Widget Computers or Blew Widget Computers) as they can be infringement. If the examiner doesn't think, in their opinion, there is infringement upon existing usuage, they will accept the filing for publication. That publication goes out to trademark attorney's who check to see if any new filings are infringing (in their opinion) on any of their clients trademarks. This takes about a year.

If no one comes forward in this year to contest your application, it can be accepted and then a 5 year period starts where anyone can come forward and contest your claim to the name. After 4 years, someone comes forward and shows they have been running a little business out of their garage called "Blue Widget Computers" (of course they need to be able to prove this). They don't have a business filing, they don't have a phone number, but they indeed could prove they were using the name before you. At this point, you would lose you trademark filing because the guy running the business out of his garage had usage of the name which predated yours.

After six years (1 plus 5) your trademark will be made uncontestable if no one has come forward and successfully shown they were using the name (or similar name) prior to you. If the guy who was running "Blue Widget Computers" comes forward AFTER the six years, he cannot prevent you from using the name even though he could prove his usage predated yours. You could also not prevent him from continuing to use the name, but he would be unable to expand his business with that name.

The benefits of having a Federal Trademark are:

It establishes "in stone" the date you started using the name.

After six years, your rights to the name are uncontestable.

It makes it easy to have the domain taken away from someone who is infringing upon it.

You can collect treble damages against anyone who infringed upon your name as the courts feel anyone should check for a trademark filing BEFORE using a name - the person who infringed is unable to claim that they "didn't know" because they are expected to check.

You will also have fewer problems of infringement because many people (and certainly any large company) would check for an existing trademark prior to using it. It's a way of letting everyone know you own the name for that usuage. Unless you have filed in all 40 plus classficiations, your rights are not broad, but somewhat limited... i.e. you couldn't stop someone from selling "Blue Widget Perfume" because your rights to the name are computer related.

 

I am still amused that Microsoft convinced Mike Rowe to change his company name away from "Mike Rowe Soft".

 

Athough it sound ridiculous, he only did so after getting legal advice that he would lose in a lawsuit - he initially was going to fight it.

 

Check out the nissan [dot] com story for more reading into this issue...

 

Hey mjewel, what do you think about my other fantastic domain names, do I have to give those up too? Yahoo and Google haven't told me anything about these site names and I've had them for a while now(enough that they'd have said something if they wanted to).

adsense-news.com
yahooypnnews.com

It's getting so a web developer can't make a dollar online anymore without stepping on someone else's toes.

Thanks,
PuReWebDev

 

It looks like your intent of those names is to talk about adsense and YPN. They are both trademark infringement. There is nothing wrong with doing a site about those services, it's using their name in the domain which is riding their goodwill.

Just because someone hasn't said anything, don't assume they won't. Most of the "MySpace" sites went a couple of years before they got a C&D. A company could not do anything for years and then sue you for all the income the site had generated, plus damages. It's just not worth the risk.

Just build sites that don't have to ride the goodwill built by someone else. If you aren't trying to ride their goodwill, then you don't need to use their name in the domain name you pick.

 

All that goodwill stuff your talking about got lost somewhere back in the 60's.

In anycase, back in the real world. I got to keep the domain name with no further dispute from amazon. I can use it now to direct traffic to my new domain. Since I'm only forwarding traffic and not running the associates program on the domain, I'm no longer violating their program tos.

It's a great domain name and I registered it fair and square(with goodwill, lol).
I'm a business professional, with enough savvy to know a good deal when I see one. Just an fyi, I've already been offered over ten thousand for the domain.

Sorry some of you didn't like the post, but amazon is happy and so am I. Wish us luck


PuReWebDev

 

Sure you were.

 

I'm going to register AmazonInternetStore.com, BuyAmazonBooks.com, AmazonSuperSales.com, AmazonCoupons.com and make a killing.

On a more related, non-sarcastic note...

I recently registered a .net and a .info of two new product names. I intended to make a few quick bucks by listing places to buy the products and then give up the domains if requested. Well the corp that makes the products contacted me quickly once I got #1 on Google and said "Give up the domains!"

I replied, "I have your main corporate site linked prominently three times from my product information site. I intend to do no harm to the brand and only sell more units for you."

I didn't hear from them again for two months... until this morning. In the meantime, I've been selling the products like crazy through affiliate channels. This morning, the marketing director of the corp wrote to me and asked that I make a few small changes in the links and description of the product on my informational sites. That is all! Carry on selling! Gotta love that.

 

Some registrars (like namecheap) won't even allow you to renew domains with popular trademarked names in them (like google, msn). So beware if you get a name with a trademark, you may even have trouble renewing when the time comes...

 

tell them to get bent and say they can have your acossiate thing. Or tell them it was named so after the amazon rain forest and therefore has nothing to do with them.

 

bumper .