Is it possible to argue for the existence of god without using faulty logic?

Are there any arguments for the existence of god that don't rest entirely on logical fallacies?

If not, Then shouldn't any argument for the existence of god be dismissed entirely on the grounds that it is based on flawed logic?

I would love to hear some examples for the existence of god that use sound logic, So if you have any, Let's hear them.

 

The way I see it, we either came from something or we came from nothing. If something (I'm going to refer to something as God) created us then we have meaning. If we came from nothing, then we are a part of nothing.

how can everything in the universe have purpose and meaning, and not human beings?

A car takes you places, a hammer hits things, shoes protect your feet, jackets keep you warm, bees make honey, keys unlock things, and the moon keeps the earth on its axis.

How can the most intelligent and complex beings in existance be random and meaningless? If we have the ability to give meaning to things, how can it be that we are meaningless?

 

let's consider a random object floating in the universe (e.g. a piece of rock or a little star some 2746 lightyears from us. What is the 'purpose' of that?

 

The assumption that the first cause must be god is fallacious.

False premise. Not everything in the universe has a purpose.

Argument from design.

Non-sequitur

 

The "purpose" of that rock in space is obviously to be a rock in space. The meaning of that rock is obviously that it is a rock. To argue in favor of God on the grounds that without a creator we are meaningless seems like a logical fallacy to me. Is the egg not an egg without the chicken who laid it? Of course it is an egg, whether I cooked the chicken or not.

Best argument I can come up with is that God is the convergence of all causes and effects. The beginning of all things and also the end. The combined forces of the universe, their behaviors and processes all rolled together. Growth and development as well as entropy and destruction are the byproducts of these forces. All things and energies at all times. God being the space/time continuum as well as being outside it and beyond it, such as emotion and imagination can seem to transcend space/time.

But if you define God differently or more complex than that then I sound like a heathen or a fool, subjective reality at its finest. But then again logic is not the great force of the universe it is made out to be. Emotion has a valuable place in the world as well, for instance in the realm of art and entertainment. To place logic as the greatest force in the universe is in itself illogical.

 

Nobody said it was the greatest force in the universe. We are saying it is required when making sound arguments that make sense.

 

And I somewhat agree Stox. But to say that God cannot exist unless logically proven to do so is the opposite of your thread title and I am just pointing out, that that is also a logical fallacy. I can't prove there is a God so therefore one must not exist. Either way I think my definition of God and my argument for it's existence is logical even if it is unprovable.

 

The existence of God can never been proven by human logic. It is based on faith.

This itself is a proof, since God is the creator, we shouldn't be able to prove his existing with our human logic.

Peace,

 

God's non-existence cannot be proven with logic either. Atheism just looks like another religion to me, assuming answers to unknowable questions.

 

Nothing is beyond logic. If anything is beyond logic, then we can just illogically create ourselves, why do we need a God?

The fact is, we cannot prove or disprove existence of a God or Gods. There might be a "creator", but there is no evidence, hence we leave that as an unknown(for now). And the Gods that many people worship now just seems very unlikely, especially when they are said to be "perfect". I am sure if some God is "perfect" and made Man in his image, he wouldn't have failed or even made a mistake or want to play hide and seek.

 

Some of things seem to be beyond logic. Most phobias for instance. Love hurts is another example of something that seems illogical but to many rings true. Emotions in general do not always follow logical causes and can evoke illogical responses.

 

Nobody said god can't exist unless logical proven. I said every argument for the existence of god should be dismissed because it contains faulty logic. The argument for god can be dismissed on the grounds that it's logic is flawed.

We aren't talking about proving the existence of anything. Everybody read what i am saying very carefully. I am talking about the arguments for the existence of god. The arguments.

 

If God exists, I will enter heaven. Atheists will enter hell.

If he doesn't exist, I am not losing anything. I don't kill, rape or do bad things just like a normal atheist.

Peace,

 

Pascals wager.

Of course, that reasoning relies entirely on your assumption that if a god does exist it will be the one you have chosen to believe in and you entirely ignore the fact that through history there have been thousands of gods who make exactly the same threats of hell and promises of rewards.

 

If you define God as I do, as everything manifest and unmanifest and also something that is omniscient, then to prove God's existence is as easy as proving that everything shares a collective conscious. Jung seemed to think it likely, but of course proving it is, so far beyond the realm of human possibility.

First we would have to be able to define and quantify the totally of reality. Then we would have to see if all things in that reality where conscious. And finally we would have to discover if all those things shared some part of that consciousness.

If all things created and all things yet to be created, including thoughts, feelings, ideas, and emotions constitute the totality of all reality, including inner reality such as the subconscious, then it is not a very far step to believe that some part of that reality is shared across space/time with everything. That is to say that reality has some consciousness of itself that is shared with everything reality contains. Even if that sharing is as simple as the fact that everything has a consciousness.

The question is "If I am conscious of my existence, is existence conscious of itself and if so then does that make it conscious of all selves." The question is too big to even put odds on. You can't even say it's 50/50 whether or not there is a conscious all knowing power to the universe, because even the term universe is a placeholder word for all things, which of course we do not know of "all things".

So there is your logical argument for the possibility of a God. It is as possible that reality knows itself as it is that you do. Of course this is all philosophy. If you were looking for science you shouldn't ask philosophical questions.

 

ok, go on. prove it.

welcome back to square one. see the OP.

 

It can't be done, you can't prove or disprove God's existence with logic.

 

Can you prove that God does not exist using logic?

Dont you realize that religion/faith is NOT logical so how can it be explained or proven logically?

YES everything that exists has a purpose. It is silly to say otherwise. A 'things' purpose may not be evident to you but it is there nonetheless.

 

i guess its truly based on faith.. you can't prove it with human logics.. Has there been a human logic and existence of God is proven.. there wont be this many religions and atheists..

 

Re-read your own posts
You said a logical argument and I made one. I didn't set out to prove anything just to propose a logical argument for the possibility. If I could prove the existence or non-existence of any God, I would own the internet