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Would you vote for an Atheist?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by stOx, Feb 8, 2008.

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Would you vote for an Atheist?

  1. Yes

    48 vote(s)
    72.7%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #21
    Is there any proof that the killing of say Jews, is not considered immoral from an atheist standpoint?

    I am no atheist, IMHO you are generalizing too much by the above statement.

     
    wisdomtool, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  2. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #22
    Character is derived from morals. If you have no basis for morality you have no character. How can you judge someone's character if there is no objective standard for morality?

    How can you call Hilter evil if morality is subjective and you believe that judging people based on objective morality is bigotry?
     
    KalvinB, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  3. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #23
    Unlike your morality which allows for the killing of innocent people as long as it's a result of incompetence. Are you really going to try and claim that your view is the morally superior one? the view that justifies the means by the end?

    Is that what jesus would say? "fuck em, At least we got some baddies in the process".

    That's not morality.. That's just someone guilty of double think trying to justify something which even an atheist, someone who you claim has no morals, Finds absolutely disgusting and repugnant.

    If atheists lack morals why does your opinion make me want to vomit?
     
    stOx, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  4. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #24
    How can you call something immoral if there is no objective standard for morality?

    "Good" is defined by the person doing the actions. If Hitler says killing Jews is good, then by those arguing against me, it would make you a bigot to say otherwise.

    That is the atheist moral foundation. If it works for you why are you trying to falsely pin that on religious people and act like it's a bad thing?

    Isn't it fun that you can try to judge Christians and you yourself, lacking any moral foundation, can feel like you can get away with anything without being judged?

    It is the government's moral duty to protect the innocent from the wicked. It is the government's moral duty to do it's best to avoid hurting the innocent in the process.
     
    KalvinB, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  5. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #25
    Judging from your above statement, can I conclude also that Hitler is an atheist?

     
    wisdomtool, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  6. omgitsfletch

    omgitsfletch Well-Known Member

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    #26
    If you're religious.

    If you believe in the Constitution and that our rights are inalienable, the belief/disbelief in a God should not affect those convictions. Either you believe the Constitution is the rule of law (regardless of if you call it man's law or God's law), or you don't. There is no correlation between that and religious beliefs.

    Christians sure haven't killed any people in their history, have they? Oh wait, what about that time period before the Renaissance...what did we call it again? Oh yea, the Dark Ages! Disobey the pope or the Church and be burned at the stake. Stalin was a dictator and did what he did to hold power, not because he didn't believe in God. It's not a contest either; atheists and religious folk have both slaughtered many people in humanity's history, but to say one is much worse than the other is silly.

    Rabble rabble rabble.

    Morals can be found outside of the Bible. Another baseless attack on atheism.

    Christian dictators still will act like dictators; it's about a person's moral fiber on a personal level, not their religion, that will dictate their actions.

    Nice, baseless attacks combined with the pity card! I don't care what you believe, but I don't want it in my face or my (future) children's faces. To each their own. Aren't these things that you should be practicing as a good Christian?

    How very ironic, given that with said right comes the opportunity to NOT follow a religion. But it's cool to oppress one's right and even be biased against them, if they have NO religion. Would you vote for a Buddhist? Muslim?
     
    omgitsfletch, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  7. vibinhari

    vibinhari Notable Member

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    #27
    YES!!! I'd vote for an atheist any day...
     
    vibinhari, Feb 9, 2008 IP
  8. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #28
    I'm a devout atheist. I'd strangle myself with a G-string before I vote for a "man of God."

    What most people don't realize is that the whole concept of 'God' is a subjective thing. To you, God is a person who created humans in his own image; to me, God is a word that comes after goby (at least in my dictionary). Being a religious person has nothing to do with morals or good leadership. In fact, war and crime have a lot more to do with religion than with atheism.

    While I have no problem at all with a Christian or a Muslim or a Hindu being the President, I'll be damned if I live in a religious state.

    Two thumbs up for me.
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Feb 10, 2008 IP
    wisdomtool likes this.
  9. iul

    iul Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Morality comes from education not from religion and it's basicly respecting other people's rights. I don't steal not because it's illegal or because the bible sais I'll burn in hell. I don't steal because I know stealing infringes that person's rights of property and I wouldn't like having my stuff stolen either
     
    iul, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  10. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #30
    3 thumbs up for you, I even took of my socks to show my toe thumb :)


     
    wisdomtool, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  11. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #31
    OK so now we've got 5 thumbs. Two and a half for you ;)
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  12. vibinhari

    vibinhari Notable Member

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    #32
    Awesome! We should have more people like you in the world and certainly more (women wearing) G-strings :D
     
    vibinhari, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  13. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #33
    I'd vote for a good man, whether atheist or god fearing. Goodness can exist separate from religion or atheism.
     
    lightless, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  14. ::TECHMAN::

    ::TECHMAN:: Peon

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    #34
    Not very far from what I'm trying to say. By "man of God," I mean a person that puts religion above principled behavior. Such a man would never fit my description of "president" or "leader." He would only want to push his agenda down my throat which I cannot live with.
     
    ::TECHMAN::, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  15. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #35
    Hitler became more anti-Religion the farther along he got. By the end of it he hated Christianity as much as any religion. Socialism cannot coexist with religion. Neither can communism. Especially Christianity. The Bible puts God's authority over man's authority. Socialism and Communism want the leader to the ultimate unquestionable authority. Christians are taught to disobey the government if the government is asking them to do something that goes against God. Atheists have no such issue.

    Exactly, the typical supression of religion. Religion offends you so you think you have a right to prevent other people from saying "offensive words" like "prayer" in a public area. You're offended by the word "God" so you don't want to hear or see the word anywhere.

    Muslims are offended by pigs so they demand that public offices in Europe remove all pig images.

    There's a difference there somewhere.

    Are your children brainless sheep that can't hear the word "God" without suddenly becoming religious? Is that what you're trying to convince us all of?

    You admitted yourself you don't believe "to each their own." You want to suppress religion when Emperor you is around. If you were tolerant you wouldn't be offended when people participate in a prayer in a public place in your presence.

    But you are. And that's why you and people like you are unfit for office.

    Leaders who are religious are not setting out to oppress religious or nonreligous people. Atheists are constantly fighting to suppress religion in public areas. As you yourself even support.

    Efforts to eradicate religion: 100+ million dead who believed in all sorts of religions in less than 100 years in the 20th century
    Crusades: 3 Million dead over a period of 300 years nearly 1000 years ago. Equal parts Christians and Muslims.
    Iquisition: Less than 1 million people over the course of several hundred years
    Abortion clinic bombings: 1 single death since 1977 when the first bombing happened.


    I can really see the source of the problem here. If religious people would just stop being religious then the atheists wouldn't have the slaughter them in such great numbers. It's no wonder that atheists want to point the finger at religious people. Otherwise they might have to take an honest look at themselves.

    It's pretty sad that people are so ignorant of history that they have some vague idea of the crusades but can't remember what happened just last century.

    As soon as atheists stop trying to suppress religion in public areas calling it "tolerance" I'll go ahead and consider voting for one.
     
    KalvinB, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  16. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #36
    He still used god, Jesus and the bible to justify the killing of 6 million jews, if only to himself.
    Have you read mein kampf? What am i talking about, Of course you haven't. Here are some excerpts from it for your education;
    "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

    "And the founder of Christianity [Jesus] made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"

    These are some excerpts from Hitlers 1922 paper "my new order";
    "In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison"

    "I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those Jews by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited".

    That's what a christian leader is capable of. think about it. when someone believes they have god on their side there is no limit to the inhumanity they are capable of. So to carry on implying that a leader needs a religion to get morality from is not just a plain face lie, But it's also an obvious contradiction to historical facts.

    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -- Steven Weinberg
     
    stOx, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  17. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #37
    Uh no. He drove the tax collectors out of the temple. Some of them may have been Jewish. He didn't drive the worshippers out of the temple. If only Hitler had gone after tax collectors the world may be singing a different song about Hitler. Boy, if Jesus had taken on Lawyers in the temple Hitler would be a hero today.

    Anyway, that would explain his hated for Christianity. He realized that he was a complete dumbass and that no Christian would buy his idiotic justification for murder.

    The New Testament even states that God still loves the Jews. So strike one in interpreting Jesus' actions and stike two for not reading farther along.

    Those are facinating quotes. I didn't know where Hitler got the idea that God hates Jews.

    He wasn't a Christian. It didn't take long for him to stop pretending and start killing Christians as well.

    Lenin and Mao killed 10 times those killed by Hitler and didn't even bother trying to justify it with religion. The justification was that religion is bad for society.

    So why don't you see if you can find enough "religious" wars to total over 100 million people. Just for giggles I'll play along with you and pretend that Hitler was doing it for religious reasons. So let's see you come up with 94 million people murdered by people trying to establish a religion. In a time period of less than 100 years.

    So you don't think what Lenin and Mao did was evil? Of course not, that takes a moral judgement.

    So what you're trying to convince us all of is that if someone like Lenin rose to power again and started slaughtering religious people by the millions you would not call it "evil" and do nothing?

    But if a religious people starting slaughtering civilians because they were not following the "right" religion then you'd stand up and want to fight against them?
     
    KalvinB, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  18. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #38
    Hitler still found justification for killing jews in the bible and in jesus. You can argue that his interpretation isn;t the same as yours, but the FACT is, Hitler was a christian, Believed god condoned what he was doing and compared his actions to that of jesus.

    of course what they did was evil. Re-read the quote and try to understand it this time;
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
    Lenin and mao were evil people doing evil things. The point of the quote is that if you want a good person to do evil things it takes religion. So to have a leader who is religious you open yourself up to the possibility of a good person doing evil things in the name of their imaginary friend.
     
    stOx, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  19. astup1didiot

    astup1didiot Notable Member

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    #39
    I cannot believe you even made that statement, you do realize that the "worst" war crimes and mass murders in history were done over religion. Show me one "example" where war crimes were commited on religious believers by athiests.

    It's funny, religious people are the so called loving ones when they are quick to condem you to enternity in hell for not following "their" beliefs. How interesting.
     
    astup1didiot, Feb 10, 2008 IP
  20. astup1didiot

    astup1didiot Notable Member

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    #40
    I love how Pope Urban the II is famous for his phrase Deus Vult! ("God wills it!") Thats how you recuite people for war ;)
     
    astup1didiot, Feb 10, 2008 IP