White House Knew of Levee's Failure on Night of Storm (Katrina)

Like it or not, this happened becaus ethe people were black. No getting around that. You dont think for a second, if it was a white suburb this would have happened? Heh.

 

and all you are is a left wing fanatic that blames everything on republicans no matter what happens.

*Yawn* Hypocrites Hypocrites Hypocrites......

It's funny how the levees would have broken had Katrina hit in 1998 but had it happened then Crazy_Rob would be singing a much different tune.

It's truly sad how you and all the other hypocrital extremist liberals show your true colors.

That is absurbed. Stop listening to Kanye West. So I guess Condi was in on all this too right? Condi is a damn racist too.

Love the though process that some of you guys walk yourselves through.

Anywho I am off on a road trip with some buddies to go to the World of Wheels car show. I'll have to catch all the extremist liberals new Bush hating threads/comments tomorrow night.

 

You're a clueless twit!

 

If the shoe fits...that's actually one of the disturbing rumors we are hearing. I tried hinting at that earlier in this thread. There is no proof to back that up other than the fact that it took 4 days for the administration to react . How could this be. It seems that most of this has been forgotten but I will never accept nor forget this point. As Rob says, who is being held accountable? All just wisked under a carpet, BS.

I guess there's always the right and the left side, I try to respect both but in this case I have to agree with Rob. How is it that some people can't see what's smack dab in front of there face.

Am I missing something here, lakehorn? I don't understand! Are you referring to this or have you also been drinking ?

 

No, actually I live in the real world. I did not defend government. I put blame where it belongs. With the government in New Oreleans and the state of Louisiana.

Until someone tells me what they did with the billions of dollars of other states money, I can find fault with no one else. Don't forget that when the feds stepped in , Ray Wonka told them to go away. It's their mess, let them clean it up. I did my part in the relief effort helping secure wireless communications for several news agencies including CNN, as well as other forms of emergency communications, again using wireless technologies. I was not able to go, but a small group from an organization I belong to did. My work was limited to on phone consultation and configuration of the gear deployed.

While everyone runs around blaming Bush for Nagan's f&#kup, there are untold thousands that said, screw this leftist blaming game and stepped up to the plate to help at their own peril and at their own cost. God bless those that did.

In the end it is just another thing to blame Bush for. Whatever. It's pretty childish if you ask me. Anyone care to tell me where the money that the state of LA was receiving for their levies went? Anyone?

Then that is all I have on the subject.

 

Mia, here's where some of that money went:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/07/AR2005090702462.html?sub=AR

It went to pork barrel projects unrelated to what it was intended for.

Here's where more of the money went:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/law/news/wdl20041129.html

Where did the money for communications go?
http://karmic_inquisition.blogspot.com/2005/09/new-orleans-was-never-out-of-looptoday.html


As for Rob's comments:
http://www.factcheck.org/article344.html

We also know that LA officials deliberately prevented the Red Cross from delivering food and water to those than needed it. Oddly enough, Louisiana is not the only *Southern* state to have blacks. Florida, Mississippi and Alabama were also hit and have large black populations, yet these states seemed to be able to take care of things much better and no one accused them of such racial absurdities. The main difference? The Louisiana Govenor is Democrat, the others were Republican. The others seem to know the processes and followed emergency plans, where LA did not. As evidenced by hundreds of school buses left parked, but were part of the emergency evacuation plan.

If an 18 year old can take matters into his own hands and follow the emergency evacuation plan the city/state had in place, why can't their leaders?
http://www.local6.com/news/4929516/detail.html

 

That's all anyone needs to know. Thanks.

Your whole aim, apparently, is to direct the blame in the direction of the local governments of New Orleansa and Louisiana. It's a narrow focus...but that's understandable of course.



Gtech, just FYI, there's new information in the article I posted.


(Since I'm 100% certain you haven't read it)

 

The same was true of the organization that I belong to. When they first got there, they were turned away, or held up. Trucks carring food, held up, trucks carrying water, held up... The list goes on an on. Way to go Nagan, your my favorite democrat.

Looks like in some cases we know where the money went, but in too many other cases, "no one knows where the money went", or "its any guess where the money went." Under the Bush Admin LA saw an overall increase in funding/grants for levies, communications, emergency management, etc., and they pissed it all away.

Now the ignorant blame Bush for doing nothing. I guess I can fault Bush with one thing, trusting liberals with the people's money.

I can also fault him with now giving them more when they should simply level the entire city and move inland. That would be the smart thing to do.

 

HA- good one, mia!

You should go to open mic night and try out your routine on a full audience. I'm not even drunk and you're cracking me up. Give me a few cocktails and I'd be high-fiving everyone in the room!

Stupid, spendthrift liberals!!!
US Trade Deficit Hit Record High in 2005

 

GTech and Mia : With all due respect, budgetary funnels is what you are talking about but that doesn't help folks like me understand certain fundamental issues.

Has nothing to do with money or budgets, the help was there and refused, why?

Many other countries, including ours, offered immediate aid...refused . That's what I am having trouble digesting. Since I have very little respect for ANY politicians, in the world (that's just me though). I really just need to find some satisfaction with my questions. I have not with any posts here. No one has addressed this directly. NO doubt you guys know your American politics well, but the important points of this thread are just tactfully being danced around by you.

Bottom line that I see, the Bush administration was sleeping in a time of crisis. I may be out on a limb here but that's unacceptable, IMO.

 

Good question. Only Ray knows...

According to?

 

Jeremy, I wrote IMO

H

 

Thank you for that. I can respect that.

 

That would depend on what the fundamental issues you believe are. Going back to page one, you asked:

I don't believe the response time did take "so long." FEMA's response time is 72-96 hours. State and local governments know this and as part of their emergency plans, are supposed to be prepared to deal with disasters at the state/local level during that first 72-96 hours. NOLA and LA had emergency plans, but did not implement them according to their published plans. The state/local government should have been prepared for the first 72-96 hours with sufficient food and water supplies.

Compounding this, Louisiana was just one of four states hit. Mississippi, Alabama and Florida were also hit and sustained very severe damages. Yet those states seemed to fair the disaster much better in terms of preparedness and action. The Louisiana Governor refused help at numerous levels. Initial reports by media were that Louisiana avoided the major damage anticipated by such a storm...UNTIL the levees broke. Those levees that broke, were levees that had been repaired UNDER the federal budget allocated to LA. They were not old levees that had not been upgraded, but rather newer ones that were upgraded as part of LA's levee upgrade program. Is that their fault? No, absolutely not. They upgraded the levees according to their plan, yet they still failed. Had levees that had not been upgraded failed, there might be more of an argument that federal funding prohibited this, but then there is also issues that the state did NOT use the allocated money as they should have.

So there was not just ONE state for FEMA to respond to, but FOUR states that were hit by this hurricane. FEMA has 2600 employees NATIONWIDE. Obviously, not all are "search and rescue" positions. To deploy even 2/3rds of that number (which is probably a stretch) would be 1,733 people over four states. Roughly 433 FEMA personnel per state, given that the 1,733 number is even remotely correct.

If you follow the timeline of events:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hurricanekatrinatimeline.html

Monday night, the levees broke. Tuesday, looting breaks out, attempts to plug the levee breaches. Wednesday, Blanco decides (finally) to ask for troops, 40,000 to be exact. Buses begin evacuating those held up in the Superdome. (48 hours into the disaster) Thursday, (72 hours into the disaster), Nagin seems to think 40,000 troops can be mobilized in less than 24 hours after Blanco FINALLY asks for help. More buses evacuate the Superdome. State officials prevent the Red Cross from entering New Orleans with food and water. People are begging for food and water, yet state officials prevent the very relief they need.

This was not a small hurricane. It severely damaged (what some call to biblical proportions) four states. There is no way a hurricane causing a disaster of this proporation is going to make any agency look good. Rescue and recovery can NEVER be fast enough, no matter what is done, in the face of a hurricane like this.

Were there errors/mistates? You bet, on all sides. FEMA has a 72-96 response time and their respone to this hurricane was faster than any before. It was just too overwhelming. The response time was more than met, yet again, it can never be fast enough. But if their response time is 72-96 hours and state/local goverment has a responsibility for disaster relief during that intial time, then the state/local government should have met that responsibility. There was not adequate food/water supplies in the Superdome. Food and water was turned away! While some could not physically leave, others made the choice not to leave when they could have. School buses, hundreds of them, sat unused, when they were part of the local evacuation plan. Other help/services were turned away, because Blanco didn't want the federal government in control.

A hurricane does not chose it's color or income. Parishes of poor and rich were hurt and affected. NOLA has a very large black population. But Louisiana is not the only state in the south with a large black population. Four other southern states with large black populations were hit as well. But we don't hear the same "it was because they were black" excuse in those states. This hurricane caused the largest natural disaster in history on the US. Let me say that again...This hurricane caused the largest natural disaster in history on the US. I'm not a metorologist, but I suspect a hurricane is color blind. If there is a large population of any race in a given area a hurricane hits, it's not unreasonable to think that those affected would comprise a large percentage of the population that inhabits the area. But there are large populations of black residents in the other three states that were hit as well. Yet there is no racial questions looming regarding Katrina's damage in those states.

Four states were hit. We hear nothing of three of them. Three of them seemed to fair well and were not out on a blame game mission. Three of them didn't play politics with the lives of their people by refusing federal and other help and/or waiting until 48 hours afterwards to do so. Three other states knew FEMA's response time is 72-96 hours, yet FEMA responded much sooner than 72-96 hours.

I'll add to this, that EVEN if the state/local goverments had executed their emergency plans as they were drafted, even if the local government were prepared with enough food/water/shelter/personnel for search/rescue during those first 72 hours as they were supposed to be and even if the city had used those hundreds (perhaps thousands) of buses to evacuate people as their plan called for, it would not have changed the damage it caused. The levees that broke were already upgraded and these caused the massive flooding and devastation we saw. Certainly lessons were learned all around here, but no human intervention could have prevented the destruction this hurricane caused, short of not building a city below sea level.

Hope that helps shed some more light.

 

This is old news, 25 to 30 years old.

The goverment knew the levees would fail in the 70's. Back then the projected loss was only calulated in property damage, human life was excluded. As a result it was determined the risk of loss was less then that of the expense to make the levees able to withstand a katrina.

Your goverment loves you so much, they couldn't bare to calculate losing you. So they skipped that part. :/

 

Thanks Gtech, for the details. Clearly you know what's up here.

It still leaves me wondering though why that state seemed to not fair as well as the others? Although you have explained the timelines it still seems like a lot of red tape to pull people out of the water.

I understand the magnitude of this disaster, feel strongly for my neighbours and my prayers go out to those that suffered losses. I also hope the next time a disaster strikes rescuers, local and national government are more in sync and well prepared. I still believe the search and rescue timeline can be improved greatly...including accepting help from ANYONE that offers! Heck, if was 20 years younger I would have been there myself .

 

I'm a republican and find it ironic they passed the federal emminate domain bill shortly before this.

No greed in the republican party, huh? If not, why the need for such a bill?

 

you have a point there...

But it shouldn't be..

 

My understanding is, that there is not a lot of red tape for federal assistance regarding disasters. There are steps the local/state governments have to take. State and local governments also have to be willing to accept that help.

 

mia and Gtech, put down the trumpets for just one second.

Bush (Almighty himself) admitted the the federal response was not enough and that the government had failed in many areas during the Katrina aftermath.

I believe it was the first (and only) time he actually tried to take SOME responsibility for one of his administration's many colossal F-ups!