Can you use images

I came across this site this morning, and was wondering if it was legal to do. I'm not trying to be a busy body, becasue if it's legal I'll probably do something similar.

Basically, he builds up pages, each one containing images/thumbnails of pictures. He describes the pages as image search results.

here is the url:
http://www.dotdragon.com/

Your thoughts?

 

I'm not a lawyer but here is my take on it...

I looked at the URL for all the thumbnails, they are all the image's residing from images.google.com

Now I don't think it would be wrong considering the fact they aren't google's images in the first place, they just spider them to add to thier database. Google will remove image's if webmaster's ask them to.

So I think you would be safe to do so provided that you remove the image at the request of the site's webmaster. That is provided that you are not utilizing it for personal gain and infringing on copyrights. Seem's they are just a spider that catalogs it all.

But don't quote me on all this.

 

This is a grey area. Google has been sued many times for display these types of images. Google's claim is basically that they are allowed to display such thumbnails as they are a legitimate search engine. There are several cases in court from the copyright holders that dispute this right.

In my opinion, the usage by the site you mention is not legal. They are not linking to the page of the original image, but rather linking to a copy of the image. I don't think they could argue they are a legitimate search engine vs. a commerical site using the images to generate income from contextual advertising. (I believe google doesn't display advertising on these results for that very reason).

There is a "fair-use" doctrine that permits usuage under certain circumstances, but this usually excludes most sites. A disclaimer that states you will remove an image if requested by a copyright holder doesn't get someone who is infringing off the hook.

Whether or not google is infringing or not, they have millions of dollars to spend fighting it in court. This can deter some lawsuits because the copyright holder knows he is going to need to spend a considerable amount of money to take google to court. A smaller site wouldn't have this protection and would be a likely target for a lawsuit. Are you willing to hire an attorney to fight a lawsuit for copyright infringement?

I wouldn't do what this site is doing until I consulted with an attorney who specializes in intellectual property rights. Spending a few hundred dollars now could prevent a very costly lawsuit down the road.

 

Since I saw this particular sight, and got curios about it, I decided to go looking.

If you do a search for say, Pamela Anderson, there are tons of sites promoting her pictures as well as countless other celebs. If so many are doing it, and it is illegal, how come there aren't lawsuits being handed out left and right?

 

How come there are thousands of sites promoting child porn? The point being, just because someone else is doing it, it doesn't make it legal. If you search this forum, you will see posts from site owners who have used images without permission and are now being asked to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars in usuage fees.

Yes, there are a lot of sites that illegally use copyrighted images - as well as some who have obtained or paid for permission to use a photo. There are also a lot of sites that have been sued. You may get away with it, but you are also taking the risk that you will be one of the ones that get sued.

Copyright laws protect the owners rights to their work. Most of the times, the celebrity isn't the owner of the image and can't even give permission to use a photo. The rights usually belong to the photographer or agency they work for. I have a neighbor who was a fairly well-known photographer and has thousands of celebrity photos (mostly from the music industry). He has never given permission to use any of his photos on the web and has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars suing sites that have used his photos. It's a personal thing with him and he doesn't do it to make money (and he can afford legal fees he usually doesn't recover in full).

Copyright infringement can actually be criminal, and there are a few rare cases of people getting several years in prison. Usually, you will get a C&D and possibily a demand for a usuage fee. If you use a photo without the permission of the owner, they really can demand almost any usuage fee they want. It is not that uncommon to have usuage fees for a single photo to run several thousand dollars - and that is only for a limited usuage and/or amount of time. Other than some news and sites which can claim "fair use", you must have permission from the copyright holder to use an image. There are several sites that sell rights to use celebrity photos.

 

Placing Yahoo ads all over it to make money is IMO indeed personal gain!

 

Thank you all for your opinions, I think I'd better pass on this venture! ;-)

 

My mom owns a copyright business, and has written a book on it as well. Take my word. I ask her questions like this all the time!

 

You are right. Commerical use is generally defined as a site that takes in any revenue - and that includes advertising, link sales, memberships, and even accepting donations for "bandwidth" - any type of money, regardless of if you turn a profit or not.

 

Another copyright issue not worth pursuing - DO NOT TRY TO REGISTER DOMAIN NAMES OF REALITY SHOW CONTESTANTS!!!

A year or so ago, I bought domain names of a few Survivor Contesants - not rip off domains, but the real deal ones. A month later, I received an email from attorneys at CBS, on behalf of a particular contestant, saying I was using their name to generate revenue, and that person would take legal action if I didn't turn over the domain names to them, and to the others whose domain names I owned as well.

The point being, that using other people's stuff (whether it be names, images, text) unless given permission, can be seen as infringement, especially when viewed as an opportunity to make money. (As I had Google Ads on the pages of that site.)

 

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled on this in the US

"The court ruled that use of thumbnail images in search engines is legal, confirming an earlier ruling by the same court from February 2002. But the court withdrew a previous decision on the display of full-size images, which it had deemed out of the bounds of fair use "

Here's the link
http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-1023629.html

Using thumbnails is ok, but not the full size image

 

Did they pay you for them?

 

Owners of trademarks do not need to pay for names that are infringement. One of the worst things you can do is go to the trademark holder and offer to sell a site that is infringing. The trademark holder can also just go to ICANN and have the domain taken away if you do not turn it over - and then sue you for damages. Many times infringement depends on how you use the domain. Registering a domain name like "MySpaceWidgets" wouldn't be infringement unless the content of the site was about the portal. Usually people register these types of names to ride the goodwill of a famous name - and that is what is infringement.

 

"That part of the ruling held Arriba Soft liable for copyright infringement for opening a new window to display full-size images, a practice known as in-line linking or framing."

I guess it also depends on what would be considered a legitimate "Search Engine".

 

Heck no - I was not in a position to ask them for money. They initiated transfer of ownership, and I happily obliged. Besides, I was rooting for her to win, so I was quite content to receive a thank you email from her.

That was payment enough!

 

Man, tht sounds like bullcrap. While I understand you need to be protected from infringers, it would seem that I could register anything that isn't already copyrighted, then just wait for someone else to register a domain, then take it from them. Just doesn't sound right.

Also, what is protecting me/others from those overseas who are not bound by US law?

 

A copyright is completely different from a trademark. You don't copyright a domain name, it's a potential trademark. When you right an orginal article and post it on your website, it is automatically protected from someone else coming along and just cutting and pasting it into their website.

You don't need to register a trademark to secure the rights - the rights to the name go to the first person to use it, and continue to use it, for that particular usage classification.

You can't register a trademark before you are actually using it - so that prevents what you are talking about. It also costs over a thousand dollars to register a trademark - takes 6 years to become uncontestable, and you need to pay $600 to continue the use each 5 years - And that is per classification. Multiply that by 40X to get broad protection. You are talking about a hundred thousand dollars or more to do it. It's not something the average person is going to do hoping someone is going to use it down the road.

A large company wouldn't ever use it in any case, because they check for prior usage before using a name.

It's not as simple as registering a domain name and hoping someone uses it. The guy who registered Maddona.com was forced to turn over the domain to the singer, not because she had exclusive rights to the name, but because the guy was using the domain to ride the goodwill of the singer. Had he used the domain for something not related to the singer, it would have never been taken away from him. Again, how you use the domain, the content, is what usually determines infringement.

You could register your real name, say MarkSmith.com. If another Mark Smith all of a sudden became famous, and you put content on the site about them, that is what would get you in trouble. If you didn't change the content to ride the goodwill of the famous person or business, you aren't going to get your domain taken away.

Most people who get domains taken away register domains AFTER a person, company or service has become famous. They are attempting to make money off someone elses name. That is what isn't allowed.

Think of it this way, if you started a resturant called "Blue Widget Tacos" and your hard work paid off and it became a well-known name, would you want another person to come along and open up a "Blue Widget Tacos" down the street? Or what about a "Blue Widget Burritos"? They didn't come up with the idea, they saw your success and wanted to copy it in order to take a piece of your business for free. If you come up with an original idea for a domain name, check to see if anyone else had the idea before you- if not, you're probably going to be ok.

I'm sure you wouldn't want to go to the expensive or trouble of having pictures taken or writting original articles - only to have 10 people come along and make free copies of your site and get the benefit of your hard work in a coupe of seconds. While trademark enforcement can be difficult overseas, ICANN controls domain names so that isn't an issue with domains. It doesn't matter where you live, a domain can be taken away from anyone.