Universal Healthcare - Where you getting the $$ from?

My thoughts as well.

 

It's a rare opportunity to offer that you make some really good points in this thread. "I" (and most Americans) believe we can achieve a good healthcare system for our country. It's a very important issue this election and as I type this, I'm watching the democrat debate on CNN where they are discussing this very issue.

Disregard what you are reading from most in this thread. They are ron paul supporters and are simply taking on their candidates position on the issue. RP believes in "I gots mine, you have to go get yours." RP's solution to everything is to simply eliminate it and hope for the best.

Imagine a presidency under RP (will never happen, even people on his forum today are recognizing after NH, if he doesn't get at least third...and he's polling fifth now...he doesn't have any chance) and a hurricane like Katrina happened. Many of these same people here, were the first to chastise their government for not doing enough, quick enough. But what would happen under RP? RP doesn't believe anyone is entitled to anything, unless they get off their ass and work for it. But in an event like this, people were left literally with nothing. Nothing. That RP would do nothing for these people, who now have nothing, but also demand that they pay their own medical bills, get no temporary housing, food assistance, etc, is preposterous.

America IS a better country than that. "We" (apparently not all, but as a whole) are better people than that. But since RP wants to eliminate the IRS and virtually every other federal agency, including those that deal with natural disasters, literally nothing would happen. Who would these same people blame, when people are stranded, have no food, have no shelter, no water, no sewage, no nothing? This is a symptomatic problem with many of RP's extremists "views," is that there is no though behind them. No accountability for consequences, no forethought, no nothing. "Frick it, just get rid of everything."

America will have a good health care program. We deserve it. I disagree with RP and his supporters that America should just say "frick you, poor people, we got ours, get off your ass and do something." This is the worst possible thinking I could ever imagine and is not reflective of "real" Americans. I've been poor. I've been so poor that I had to go to a food shelter to get food for my family. Nothing is more demoralizing to a man, than to be in a position that he cannot take care of his family. It happens, even to the best of people who seek not to take advantage of it, but just need a little help.

Right after I got out of the Army, I went to work for a company. Three months later, that company folded without giving ANY of it's employees any indication of such. On the day I was released, a Friday, it was a payday for work done from the 3-4 weeks earlier. We were behind two weeks, like most companies are. I was due a paycheck that day, and one more paycheck. I was told it would not be coming until next week. That didn't happen. It was another four weeks before I got paid, and it was not for four weeks of work, but for one week of work, because that's all would give.

Meanwhile, I had a choice. I could get a quick job at supermarket or fast food, or anything, making the same amount I would make if receiving unemployment, or I could do the smart thing, collect unemployement (which was 1/3rd of what I was making) and try to hustle and get a job. As a computer programmer, I had to send out resumes. It's not as simple as knocking on the door and saying "job?" All in all, that process took me five weeks, before I had another job. Shorted three weeks pay when we were living paycheck to paycheck already, then having five weeks of a 2/3rds pay cut, which took several weeks to start receiving anyway.

It was the worst time, as a man and father I ever went through. Had it not been for those "entitlements" in question, we would not have made it. We barely made it through, as it was.

Nate says that if you eat healthy and live a good life, you won't get cancer. Normally I'd say this is the most absurd thing I've ever seen, but I realize he's just 17 and in high school, so doesn't have a lot of world experience. Still, because he's a ron paul supporter, NONE of the others here took issue with this. Nate...it just simply doesn't work that way. Cancer is a nondiscriminatory disease. Take for example, Lance Armstrong. He had cancer. He's also a world champion bike racer. A man more athletic and fit than most would ever imagine being.

Perhaps you are not aware children get cancer? They do. One of my friends from High School, lost his youngest daughter at the age of three, due to a rare form of cancer. Was she healthy, did she eat healthy? She was three. It devastated the family. You cannot even imagine the hurt and pain I watched them go through when she died. The worst part of it was, they found out about it when she was about one years old. They went through various cancer treatments and numerous hospitals to try and eliminate it, but it just wasn't possible.

America is a better country than this. Where does the money come from? The money comes from us, Americans, who do our part by paying our fair share of taxes. If you have to call it the "boogeyman" under the guise of socialism, then so be it, but America is a better nation and our people are better people, than to just say "screw everyone, we got ours, you get yours."

Under RP, he would eliminate the IRS, but has no solution from where funding for our government is going to come from. Perhaps that's why he wants to dismantle the US/Government, because he has no solution. This is the most extremist thinking I've ever seen from a candidate. Hey, get rid of the IRS. I'm all about it. Fair Tax is a solution to that, but you can't just dismantle everything and not have something in place.

My children are uninsured. My grandson is uninsured. I pay for him to go to the doctor. They have fought to get medicare. Yeah, these things hit "ordinary" people who have struggled. I know it first hand, I see it first hand. I've lived through it myself. Our country is better than that. Americans, are better than that.

Some of you really need to think outside of your own little selfish interests and little worlds. America is the land of the free. We have the American dream, but it's not always so simple to achieve. We are all different, we are all individuals. When I read a story about a 16 year old girl who became a millionaire in a year, through a myspace resource site, and I've busted my ass for 27 years never coming close, I'm not mad. I'm thrilled that she made the American dream come true. But we can't all do that.

When we were attacked on 9/11, how many of you (who were actually old enough to remember), remember the devastation that followed? Let me refresh your memory. Airlines were shut down. Who services the airline industry? Hotels, Car Rental companies, restaurants, cleaning services and who services those industries? It trickled down, quite fast. Within weeks, these major industries were laying off people, because everything came to a halt. Guess what happened next? Major companies that service these industries started laying off people too.

I remember all too well. I had a software company at the time and we were doing contracts for the Air Force at the Pentagon. Everything we had in the pipeline was put on hold. We serviced companies in their training departments. First budget to get cut in times of uncertainty? Training.

We were bone dry in six months. We had enough revenue to last another eight months, but it never recovered. In the end, I lost a software company that employed 15 people, my home, my cars and everything I had. We had savings, but it simply ran out and finding any type of job doing programming at the time, especially where I live, was impossible.

Remember what Bush did? He extended unemployment benefits for millions that were affected. Imagine if RP was in the whitehouse? After first declaring that it was our fault and we deserved to be attacked, how would he help all those that lost jobs back then? RP's solution is "frick em, we got ours, bummer you lost yours." That's sad. That's not leadership and that's not what America is about. We are a better country than that, we are a better people than that.

Think about it in reality. What happens if it were you? What happens if you lost everything, due to an outside influence like a terrorist attack, a hurricane, a tornado? I had savings, but it wasn't enough. The solution is not to dismantle America. The solution is not to get rid of everything, because "a few" are selfish and self-centered. The solution is not to dismantle everything and hope for the best. Real leadership exists in men and women who really want to solve problems and make things better. They don't take the irresponsible and easy way out, but dissolving everything and gutting it. They look at the issue, they LOOK AT THE IMPACT AND CONSEQUENCES of their solutions and how it will affect "real" people.

Please, think about what you are suggesting here, ron paul supporters. I was young once too, and I didn't think so much about others or consequences then either. When you are young, you have this feeling of being invincible, that you will live forever, and that "bad things" won't happen to you. I know, I remember, I was young once too. As you get older, and accumulate "life experiences," you come to realize that you are not invincible, that bad things can happen to good people...and that the reality of life is, they can happen to you, your family, and people you know.

America is a better country than this. American people are better than this.

 

Wow I was going to give you a chance and read your post Gtech, but then you have to go all RP this and RP that.

Jesus christ can you not do anything else?

 

Grim, I seek no response from you, nor am I interested in what you have to say. Please don't flatter your ego and narcissism at my expense. You've already convinced me that you are not intelligent enough to read more than a paragraph at a time. You don't have to keep convincing me. I know.

Take your "wows" and your insults to Jesus Christ along with your ego, and have a colonic. You need one.

 

Oh Gtech, nothing but personal attacks and insults.

If you could just get off your one track 'RP sucks' track of mind and actually discuss the issues maybe even I would pay attention to the Troll that is you.

BTW I do not believe in just letting those who need help fall through the cracks. But I know you don't care, all you care about is bashing RP at every corner you get.

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BTW I thought I was on ignore?

 

Ron Paul is the only medical doctor running for President. He's also the only former Air Force Surgeon running.

You might be wise to listen to a Doctor, who worked in Charity hospitals, and treated people without medicaid and medicare when talking about Healthcare.

The closest Mike Huckabee has come to health care is losing a bunch of weight, which he seems to be putting back on as the campaign progresses.

 

i'm sure your intentions are good gtech, but your ideas are not.

you're right America is the land for the free, why do you think we have so many immigrants? why do you think mexicans die to come over here illegally and work for pennies? because they want to live the American dream - going from nothing to something.

i think it's about time for people to take responsibility for themselves, nowhere in the Constitution does it give the government the authority to assume responsibility for our problems in life. i hear your "case" everyday, on the news, on the radio, on the net, by my friends, by random people i get in discussions with...

you don't have a chance in hell in changing me back to that distorted mentality of yours. maybe you ought to consider "all the options on the table" yourself..

 

ROn Paul ought to be ashamed, to be a medical doctor, and have such a selfish position on health care. In fact, it's a slap in the face, to dismiss it, by suggesting he's a doctor.

While Ron Paul offers no health care solutions, Mike Huckabee does. I'd offer some criticism on RP's position, but he basically doesn't have one other than "I gots mine, you get yours." Kinda sad, given his profession.

America is better than that. Real "Americans" are better than that.

 

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-care/

Sure appears he has one, with articles linked neatly next to his basic overview.

I guess one would have to be capable of reading to know that.

 

I disagree. Most Americans want and do take care of themselves. I see you chose not to address what happens in times of a natural disaster. In fact, no ron paul supporter has. If immigration is your concern, RP has a very poor record there. He actually "had" an opportunity to do something about it, but (you guessed it!), voted NO.

The Constitution doesn't address many things that affect our every day lives. Hiding behind the Constitution to say "frick everyone, I gots mine, you get yours" is a weak argument. People do take responsibility for themselves. Admittedly, SOME abuse "the system." RP's solution? Dissolve it. And what about those good people, where bad things happens? What about when the next disaster strikes? Who pays for the military, or should we gut that too?

It was YOUR mentality. You simply proved that young men are impressionable and gullible. And you did it all by yourself. That's what happens when you are young. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Look what you fell for

 

so what argument do you have other than Americans are better than that?

you're what us veteran neocons used to call RINO's. the john mccain type republican. the guy who switches republican because he know D's just suck and he needs to get into a political party for power. basically saying whatever just to look good and smart. you really don't have any republican issues, but kudos for trying.

 

And you are proof of the old, senile mind who has no appreciation for new thought. your kind has never come up with inventions or innovations, more like sitting on the couch and let someone else take care of your problems.

'let the world take care of the worlds problems, they don't need me. i want the government to wipe my @ss.'

 

A selfish position? He served people for free. He worked in charity hospitals. He never turned away anyone who couldn't pay.

When you were down and out, if you had gone to Ron Paul for medical care, he would have taken care of you, gratis.

Obviously you are unaware of the legislation Ron Paul has introduced, or his platform policy.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-care/

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-freedom/

Medical costs can be cut with freedom
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/57/medical-costs-can-be-cut-with-freedom/


On Introduction of the Pharmaceutical Freedom Act of 2000
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/56/on-introduction-of-the-pharmaceutical-freedom-act-of-2000/


REIMPORTATION OF FDA-APPROVED PHARMACEUTICALS
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/55/reimportation-of-fda-approved-pharmaceuticals/


Free Market Medicine
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/54/free-market-medicine/


Dietary Supplements and Health Freedom
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/53/dietary-supplements-and-health-freedom/


Ron Paul on Health Care (articles)
http://ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=22



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Some endorsements from people in the Health and Medical industry.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/endorsements#health

 

Heh, gotta love this one! I swear, ron paul supporters just DO NOT THINK!

OK, so RP wants to get rid of the IRS! Woo hoo, no more taxes, right? Nothing to replace it, so America will quickly dwindle because RP has no way of generating income for the government, right? But wait, RP wants to dismantle the government too, right! He wants to get rid of the agencies tasked to defend America and gather intelligence on threats to our country! Oh, that's great! What a prime time to do that! Psst, al qaida, might want to put a support video together for RP! He won't track you, nor will he care about what you do, once he's in office. He'll get rid of all those pesky agencies that hound you and keep you on the run!

So, RP wants to gut the IRS? No more taxes, right? Oh yeah, sounding real cool. What's the first thing regarding health care he's going to do, should he ever finish higher than third place in a primary? Why, none other than:

Making all medical expenses tax deductible.

First he's going to gut the IRS so you have no more taxes, then to ease the burden on those that live paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford to pay 10,000 in medical bills up front, he's going to allow you to deduct that 10,000 dollars from the tax you no longer have to pay anyway, by making it TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

Wow, now there's a well thought out plan

 

Read, Nate. I laid it all on the line, including arguments, examples and rational thought about why Americans (not all, but most) are better than that. It's all there, for any/everyone to read.

Please don't be lazy.

 

Endorsements, whether real or fictitious, are not solutions. However, I can fully understand why you cannot defend a doctor's pitiful stance on health care. There's nothing to defend. That's why you have to pull up supposed endorsements.

America is better than that. Real "Americans" are better than that, they deserve better than "I gots mine, you go and get yours."

 

Your argument would make sense if you fail to realise the deductions would be UNTIL he could get rid of the IRS.

Not to mention the Fed does get income from other areas other than the IRS.

Your entire argument is simply lame to say the least, yet you talk bad about RP supporters.

 

Sit down, because I am going to embarrass you badly.

That's his goal. The 16th Amendment was never properly ratified by the states, and it is unconstitutional to collect an unapportioned tax.

But it would either require a Supreme Court ruling of UnConstitutionality, or a new Amendment, which would have to pass the House, then the President, then the states. This is civics 101.

Do you know what portion of Federal Revenue is derived from the Income Tax? How about 40%. Cutting that out, would return us to Year 2000 spending levels.

He want to return the Federal Government to a constitutionally mandated size. That would mean that the functions of government would not disappear, they would return to the states, as the Founders originally intended.

Well, he would like to reform the CIA so they are not involved in other country's internal affairs, and he would like both the FBI and CIA to be better prepared than they were on 9/11. Remember, it was their internal failures that allowed the attacks to occur. Read that 9/11 Commission Report yet?

Yes, it's called a transitional plan. It would take at least a couple years to repeal the 16th Amendment. But in the meantime, Dr. Paul has been fighting for years to save Americans their Health Care costs via tax credits.

You always bitch about how Ron Paul doesn't get anything done. The question you should be asking, when Ron Paul tries to help the average citizen, or veterans, or fight for POWs, is WHY THE HELL IS YOUR CONGRESSMAN NOT FIGHTING TO GET THESE BILLS PASSED WITH HIM!

 

Hell you embarassed me badly with this post