That's ok. He's a single issue voter, whose candidate is way behind in the polls, yet seems to have an endless amount of time to campaign here against someone who isn't even in his party's primary. It's very simple, if you break the law, you should be held accountable. I'm tired of the whole guilt complex, that somehow we drew all of these people here (every last American apparently is guilty of this )and now it's our moral responsibility to provide for them, above and beyond providing for our own families and neighbors. The issue here isn't justice for people living in the shadows. It's about the law. The government has set a dangerous precedent by putting anyone who arrives illegally above people who arrive legally. Maybe that's why so many people are encouraged by a candidate who is about change.
Some guy is on Ron Paul Revolution Radio right now, he calls in and says, "Am I the first illegal immigrant for Ron Paul?" The host says, "You're the first one to admit it!" ROTFLMAO Freedom brings us together!
The problem with this argument is that it makes any immigration reform impossible. Once someone enters the US, they can't be deported. Any tourist or student visa holder that overstays is here permenantly. Within the current immigration system , the guest worker program is basically a backdoor for more illegal immigration. What people don't seem to undertand is that the US has a system of LEGAL IMMIGRATION. The United States admits between 700000 and 900000 legal immigrants each year. As of 2006, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than any other country in the world.
I disagree. What we must first do is secure the borders. We have already gone a long way to start doing this. Secondly, we must consider those here already. Especially those who can prove they have been here for some set period of time. Let us say, for arguments sake, one year. Let us say that those who can prove they have been paying taxes during this time and have not been involved in criminal activity (for the sake of this argument, not including the very dint of their presence) would also get first priority for extended work visas. Those who have children born here, then those who have children going to school here, would also get priority. Those who own homes and business that have been paying taxes... these are the class of folks I believe we should consider for some kind of extended visas leading to citizenship. Anyone convicted of a crime - out. Those who have jobs may hold them. But the taxes that they have been currently paying to such benefits as they can never take advantage of - unemployment, Social Security. These should be redivested into those things that challenge the local gov'ts who are most directly effected - hospital care, police work, etc... Crossing the borders without permission should be staved off to begin with, and punished to a far greater extent as well. The Mexican gov't should be held FINANCIALLY accountable for not lending a helping hand. We need only cut off an aid or two to effect this. But breaking up families? Tearing folks out of their homes? No way. I won't be a party to it. Again, the bugaboo of economic drain upon the overall economy is just that - horse-crap. Read this again: Comptroller: Illegal immigrants an economic boon 06:34 PM CST on Friday, December 8, 2006 By ELISE HU KVUE News They may exist in the shadows, but the estimated 1.4 million undocumented workers in Texas are helping build up the economy. Also Online Comptroller's immigration report (.pdf) "There is economic benefit from these undocumented immigrants," said Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas comptroller. A report released Thursday by the Comptroller's office shows illegal immigrants pumped nearly $18 billion in 2005. "At the state level, it shows the positive impact," Strayhorn said. But at the local level, counties across Texas pay a price when it comes to healthcare and law enforcement services. "You leave local governments in a hole," Strayhorn said. KVUE Online Video KVUE's Elise Hu reports The cost of illegal immigrants to the Williamson County Sheriff's Office was nearly $495,000, according to the report. In Travis County, the cost to law enforcement was $4.7 million. "It's a cost for food, for security, for clothing [of inmates]," said Roger Wade, spokesman for the Travis County Sheriff's Office. Overall, the state still sees an economic boon to the tune of nearly $18 billion. And that's something immigration activists like Ana Yanez-Correa have said for a long time. "The contributions are tremendous," she said. Now, the new numbers may fuel an ongoing immigration debate. "In order for policy makers to make sound policy decisions, they need the facts," Yanez-Correa said.
I don't see any solution to the illegal alien problem with your plan. Here are three problems for starters: #1) 40-50% of illegal aliens have overstayed their visa. Even with secure borders they will continue to be more illegals. #2) What happens when the next wave of illegals come over the border to replace the last wave #3) The US already has a generous system of LEGAL IMMIGRATION
Hey Bogart, you seem pretty informed on this issue. Do the legal immigrants get free education and healthcare?
To begin with I challenge your assessment of 40-50% overstayed visas... I would think they account for no more than 10 to 15% of illegal aliens. As to your point #2 "What happens when the next wave of illegals come over the border to replace the last wave." Well, if you'll re-read what i wrote I believe in strong border security. This would eleviate this problem. Even RP is for this. Ain't he? #3) "The US already has a generous system of LEGAL IMMIGRATION" Well, apparently not according to the free trade principles this country was born upon. Because we keep employing more and moire of them As to guerillas ad nauseum comment/question "Do the legal immigrants get free education and healthcare?" Well, seeing as most "illegal immigrants" actually do pay taxes but never benefit from them in many instances I already pointed out "free education" is kind of a loaded-joke question. Don't you think? It's kind'a like asking what color was George Washington's white horse.
Also, I'm wondering about how I hear that illegals get to jump to the front of the line, ahead of legal immigrants. My family immigrated here legally, seems like a bit of a farce if anyone who broke the law should get preferential treatment.
Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917 Are Over Half of Illegal Immigrants in US Visa Overstays? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198298,00.html
I don't believe these stats anymore than I believe there are only 12 million illegal aliens in the country. Do you believe there are only 12 million illegal aliens in the country? Like Twain said, there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.
Stats on your side you believe, but other stats you don't believe Why oh why did I choose to view his post. BTW where I live there is a total seperate system setup for illegals 'paid for by tax $$'. Free bussing, free school, job center, apartment complexes, ALL for illegals. Our public school has had to cut teachers at every level in order to create classes for those who do not speak english! My child as well as other children who are US citizens are suffering from larger class sizes! What is so fucking hard to understand, if you're illegal you are ILLEGAL and should be thrown out! BTW my aunt and her family are all direct immigrants, I have no problem with them being here, I love talking to them about how they came here, the circumstances, etc. They are not 'white' they however came here LEGALLY! I am so sick and tired of people trying to play the race card and trying to justify people breaking the law! My wifes aunts husband just got thrown out of the country as he was here ILLEGALLY, I'm glad to see the system works some of the time! BTW this is one thing I do not agree with on RP, I want someone who is actually going to start deporting illegals, I would hope he'd be more agressive than what it sounds like he'd be. ---edit According to his page 'which I read before' Sounds good to me. I guess the difference is he wont send storm troopers out to round them up in mass? That is fine, as long as when we catch them, we actively pursue those breaking the law, they are punished and thrown out of the country.
Well, according to some of you die-hard RP boys this is not what he wants. But I know it's hard to figure out sometimes. Afterall he IS a politician. -Ron Paul (Doesn't seem like he agrees with you). I also think that it's pretty impractical to get an army in this country to round up 12 or maybe 20 million. -Ron Paul (Oh, he doesn't seem to agree with the stats either). -Ron Paul Wonder which way he voted in 2001???? Read it for yourself. Well off to work, plenty more flipflops where these came from. Personally, I don't trust the man.
Who said I was arguing RP's stance? I was arguing my own stance. There are no flip flops, the only flip flops are coming from you! 'it's not right to change the constitution, but lets latch onto a 'change' of the constitution'
The US already has a system of legal immigration that allows between 700,000 to 900,000 people to immigrate legally to the US. Congress can increase the number if they feel that the US needs more immigrants. Illegal immigration is a 'backdoor' system where the social costs are shifted onto the taxpayer. Illegal aliens are eligible for many free government programs that are denied to legal immigrants. Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico. If the social program exist, then they will get it. That's a big problem with immigration. The employers want cheap labor and they want the taxpayer to provide free education and healthcare.
Yeah, but we've been sold out too. Read this (found while doing research for another thread). http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst010807.htm
Well the argument that the US benefits from illegal aliens paying social security payments now goes out the window. From what I read in the link, the US is going to start Social Security payments to 5 million illegal aliens. "Worse still, an estimated five million Mexicans working illegally in the United States could be eligible for the program. According to press reports, a provision in the Social Security Act allows illegal immigrants to receive Social Security benefits if the United States and another country have a totalization agreement. " http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst010807.htm
He's supporting Ron Paul? As Thomas Jefferson said, "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law', because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." These "laws" obstruct peoples rightful liberty of freedom of movement. As such, they are immoral. As Martin Luther King, Jr. said " Just as it is the duty of all men to obey just laws, so it is the duty of all men to disobey unjust laws." From the looks of this thread, the desire to limit freedom is bringing y'all together. This is effectively impossible. The idiots in the federal government have been trying to stop the drug traffic for decades with no noticeable effect. They aren't going to be any more effective at stopping the maid and gardener traffic.