caves? i never heard that, can you show me or where you heard it? it would be interesting to visit there. i hope you don't mean cave houses at Cappadocia
The only problem with an open mind is that people might end up realizing they were wrong about something. Personal growth and self-realization can be scary for some.
Why do you keep calling people 'armature'? Are you a professional forum troll, and we are simply amateurs?
Yea, I'm not sure what his issue is. I wasn't even being a dick. The only thing remotely dickish I said was sarcastically how the shia/sunni/kurd thing is probably over something VERY important that they should be killing each other. Basically saying they are killing each other for no good reason what so ever. :::shrugs:::
Part of the problem is that you don't know history and then you post some childish comments. People have been killing each other for many many years and always the reasons are important for those who are involved in the conflict. Why did Americans started the war of independence and ended up with a moron as president when they could have stayed as part of England and have a nice old lady as queen? Why did people in North and south start killing each other during civil war, if they just waited, with high cost of food, nobody could offered to have slaves anyway. Can you see how easy it is to judge other cultures and religions and ignore your own history?
Slovenia, cute in that case i save my words. Ivo's book, i didn't read it, looks worth to read. Though in a relative comparison, you may want to see how English, Russian, Portuguese or other occupied regions and their destiny in history and then whine about Turks'.
the turks want to invade iraqi territory under the guise of seeking PKK fighters when in all reality they are scared shitless about the oil wells in kirkuk, believing that if iraq is divided into federal states meaning that the kurds get the north - where kirkuk is situated - their age old claims over the oil wells may well be challenged. turkey has had decades of fighting kurdish separatists, and are experts not only militarily at achieving their aims but at putting a suitable 'spin' on it for those all seeing and hearing western allies. so they will blame any incursions on the PKK, with plenty of trumped up news footage and statistics to back it up. but i don't think that anyone in the west is going to be fooled, however, will they just turn a blind eye?
Untrue, Turkey has always been against the Iraqi war and could well get directly involved back in 2002 when refused a military co-op request from the US. Turkey has always supported a united Iraq from the begining which assures no territory claim was on the table. However, Turkey does not want a terror feeding US oil colony along its' borders under the name Nothern Iraqi federation, the PKK is deployed there and there is one of the few places on the earth where provides safe haven to all sorts of terrorist activities with absolute no control, and allowed such by the USA. If they haven't been protected the by the Northern ıraqis or the US, Turkey would not be considering this option at this time. Surprisingly none of our fellows likes to mention that but trying hard to find something against. That shows how much they are honest about their hate on terrorism.
the kurds in the north of iraq have been protected by the coalition forces for good reason, because they have helped the coalition forces substantially in removing saddam and trying to implement/keep the peace in iraq. their peshmerga soldiers have helped police certain known hotspots and their 'intelligence services' have been invaluable to the coalition. both barzani and talabani, kurdish leaders, are now recognised politicians, helping rebuild iraq. of course the turks are not happy with this, it gives hope to their own oppressed kurdish population who long for similar freedoms. neither barzani nor talabani have approved the presence of the PKK in northern iraq, but i believe they would be even less likely to approve the planned turkish incursion on sovereign iraqi soil, ostensibly entering with countless tanks and weaponry just to hunt down a ragtag of guerilla fighters with only rifles to arm themselves. sounds decidedly fishy to me.
Untrue, not to mention the cause of the invasion was very much far from Saddam or the iraqi peace-if that's what you call the ongoing situation, the Kurds have also fought against Saddam in First Gulf war and were abandoned by the US, those who feed the PKK in the north at the moment were saved by Turkey at the time, including Barzani. Turkey refused the double cross operation(massacre) request from Saddam against the Kurds at the time. Because Turkey's problem is not with Kurds it's with PKK, two different stories. Both Northern and Central Iraqis as well as the US pretends to refuse them when on the other hand those terrorists are backed logistically by Northern Iraqis and militarily by the US. It's their responsilibity to get rid of any sort of terror in their soil, if they do not, Turkey has every right to get involved, has the experince, has the power, has the right according to international laws terrorism. And still noone says anything bad about it either, noone shows any bit of support against terrorism since it is in their favor, probably it's only terrorism when a beardy guy blows up a place full of christians.
it is true as you keep saying, kurdish refugees let down by the west after the gulf war did escape over the border to turkish kurdistan, and many good kurdish people took them in and gave them food, blankets, etc. and yes the turkish military permitted this, but they were hardly guardian angels, in fact amnesty international has footage of turkish soldiers beating women and elderly kurdish refugees begging for bread. the kurds from iraq had no choice, they didn't want to escape to turkey, knowing full well the brutality of the turkish military but at the time they preferred a beating by the turkish military to saddam bombing them with nerve agents. you call the PKK terrorists but their underlying motivation is not islam, in fact they denounce their religion when they join the PKK. their sole aim is to free the kurds from turkish tyranny. that is why the PKK are not top of the wests terrorist hit list, because the west knows damned well that the PKK as well as the peshmerga soldiers of northern iraq and northern iran, are democratically minded enough to aid them as allies.
We killed each other mostly over slavery. The south wanted out of the union and to have their own country where they could have slaves. Shia/Sunni/Kurdish are killing mainly, over some idiotic fucking differences in the Koran. Yea, I call that stupid. It's a made up book. hardly worth dying or killing for. Of course this is islam we are talking about, so you are unable to admit it's stupid. It's only stupid if we are talking about Christians or Jews I guess.
Another misinformation, it was not people who took care of 500k people, it was Turkey who developed a residing location in middle parts and took care of their needs. As i said you think terrorism is something to do with religion, let me show you it's actual definition "Terrorism in the modern sense is violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians for political or other ideological goals." It does not have to be religion related unlike you people think. These are terrorists surely, top 4th suicide bombers of the world(+upon civillians), 25,000 murders, what else do you need. As i have stated earlier, the Kurdish nationalist extremists have no more than %20 support of Turkish-Kurds, their main support is on the governing party by well over %60, that's static not assumption as yours, PKK's reason to be alive is they are used against Turkey by EU money and US weapons. What they should not forget is as long as you support terrorism, it will hit back at you sooner or later. I expect no longer anyone condemns these, but supporting the murders will be a two way road, i can say that.
leo i do not support violence of any kind, but you have to understand that if a nation treats a people like crap for years on end, refusing them their basic human rights, that they aint gonna sit back and smile nicely at you. you kick a dog often enough and one day it bites you. if the kurdish people had been given their basic human rights, not persecuted day and night for simply being kurdish, or forced in most instances to live in abject poverty, for the turkish kurds are the poorest of all the kurdish minorities, then this would not have happened. my government was responsible for creating a situation where the IRA terrorised the british mainland for 30 years, i recognise that. why can't you recognise the same?
I do not, i will not comment on the IRA thing as i have limited info about it. There has been surely abuses of human rights within Turkey in the very past, and not only upon Kurds but pretty much everybody from time to time. For eg. in the cold war times, the left wing was treated very badly. But Turkey since then, has come a long way and improved very much about human rights, gave them all rights of all sorts, Kurd nationalists even have a political party in the parliament now to speak up about any problems they have, and Turkey even got rid of the death sentence, adapted the civilized world more and more. Thing here is, global politics never really care about human ways of the situations, their focus is on the profits of any kind and covers it up with human rights related stuff to receive the public support. In Turkey we all have Kurdish friends and neighbours as we live side by side and things are different then you have been informed by the media. PKK is something very different. That is pure western funded terrorism. There is no excuse in supporting it, moreso not in a period of time when it is considered the worst trouble to the whole world.
You are again showing your lack of knowledge about history and making childish comments. Saddam was Sunni. The person who gassed the Kurds was Sunni and The Kurds that were gassed were Sunni. Saddam didn't kill the Kurds because of the religion, he killed them because Kurdish groups were fighting his government and wanted a separate Kurdistan. The majority in Iraq are Shia, Saddam was Sunni but Shia were not fighting against Saddam because of religion, they wanted more political power because the government was favoring Sunni over Shia. Today Sunni and Shia are not fighting over religion, they are fighting to see who can get the most amount of power, nothing more, nothing less.
For example American Army lost 200.000 weapons in Iraq (?) and Pkk and Pejak has American weapons now , do you expect us to believe that America is against terorism , America is one of the main supporters of terorism in this world.Turkish army is planing an operation to stop terorists. Do you belive that they will invade northern Iraq , we have made over 6 operations there and always get out , but we know who invaded a country and would do its best not to leave.
Yea when russians are figthing someone that someone is freedom fighter and when americans fight someone that someone is terrorist That goes for all people of this planet ... Like GRIM said I think. One mans terrorist, other mans freedom fighter