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McDar Experiment

Discussion in 'General Marketing' started by compar, Apr 5, 2004.

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  1. compar

    compar Peon

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    #2521
    But this is where I think it is a fools game. Your question still suggests something other than a random fuckup. I don't think there is any rational explanation. There is no "reason". It is a random occurrence. And if it is not absolutely random then it is chaos theory to the extreme. Some butterfly on the moon flapped its wing once in an asyncronous manner and the universe according to Google was thrown into discord forever.

    I don't think Google will ever understand it. The chance that we will ever divine the reason is totally unimaginable. If you are looking for cause and effect here is what I think we have. The cause is that the system is broken and in total disarry, and the effect is that the results are unpredictable and unexplainable and totally random.
     
    compar, Nov 29, 2005 IP
    dkalweit likes this.
  2. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #2522
    I don't agree with Compar's comments. But then it is only opinion. None of us really know. Maybe Google's engineer's don't know.

    I believe the page is somewhat *fragile* subject to the google algo's.

    It went through a tremendous roller coaster ride this past Feb/March and now it is going through the same.

    Mabe it will settle down as Caryl suggested earlier, similar to where it was ranked before this latest set of google changes. That has been precedent.

    We will see.

    Some sites/pages are dramatically affected by these google updates. Other's aren't as affected.

    IMHO this is one of the pages that is more affected. I'd like to see if we can find out.

    course it could be a random fuck up. If it was do you think we would see a post in the Matt Cutts' blogs like this...."...12,000 random fuck ups. 3,000 google engineers fired. I suggest you use Yahoo! :D
     
    earlpearl, Nov 29, 2005 IP
  3. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2523
    Well - It's Official

    The page is completely gone across all of the Datacenters.

    Allinanchor is 118 across all of the Datacenters.

    The good news is, it can only go up from here :cool:

    Caryl
     
    mcdar, Nov 29, 2005 IP
  4. dkalweit

    dkalweit Well-Known Member

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    #2524
    Was there a sitemap ever submitted for the experiment page? I just submitted one for my dropped site, and I noticed that the Google GUI for it is supposed to show me GoogleBot errors and everything... Overall, I know sites hit by Jagger with and without sitemaps submitted...


    --
    Derek
     
    dkalweit, Nov 29, 2005 IP
  5. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #2525
    The difference in one year in ranking the page for the term is from #2 to out of the top 1,000. That is like the difference between Mother Theresa running the country and then Saddam Hussein taking over.

    What gives google:mad:
     
    earlpearl, Nov 29, 2005 IP
  6. dkalweit

    dkalweit Well-Known Member

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    #2526

    Google == Tyrant


    --
    Derek
     
    dkalweit, Nov 29, 2005 IP
  7. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2527
    No site map submitted.

    I tested out the "new" Google sitemaps thing on another site and even after submitting the sitemap, Google took weeks to update the content on the site.

    Needless to say - I was NOT impressed.

    This site has been up for years. It has been completely spidered. There is a link to the experiment page right from my main page and at the top of the menu. There are thousands of links to the page.

    If Google can't find the page they should... - well shame on them!

    Caryl
     
    mcdar, Nov 30, 2005 IP
  8. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2528
    NEW PAGE UPDATE:
    *Google PR/Backlink update
    **33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


    The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
    04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

    Search for "Sleeping Bags"
    _____________
    NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
    You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
    ________________
    Last 10 days

    Postion #16 allinanchor: #83 --11/19/2005 [16 DCs #16, 4 DCs #269, 3 DCs #305, 10 DCs #306]]**(Allinanchor #34 on 16 DCs, #83 on 17 DCs )
    Postion #16 allinanchor: #84 --11/20/2005 [16 DCs #16, 4 DCs #331, 10 DCs #332, 3 DCs #334]]**(Allinanchor #32 on 16 DCs, #84 on 17 DCs )
    Postion #331 allinanchor: #84 --11/21/2005 [10 DCs #15, 2 DCs #63, 4 DCs #302, 4 DCs #309, 3 DCs #316, 10 DCs #331]**(Allinanchor #20 on 2 DCs, #33 on 10 DCs, #83 on 7 DCs, #84 on 14 DCs )
    Postion #461 allinanchor: #102 --11/22/2005 [10 DCs #132, 4 DCs #339, 3 DCs #422, 10 DCs #461, 2 DCs #483, 4 DCs #484]**(Allinanchor #27 on 10 DCs, #85 on 4 DCs, #102 on 19 DCs )
    Postion #430 allinanchor: #105 --11/23/2005 [12 DCs #430, 4 DCs #434, 9 DCs #446, 4 DCs #451, 4 DCs #487]**(Allinanchor #102 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
    Postion #482 allinanchor: #105 --11/24/2005 [10 DCs #430, 2 DCs #462, 4 DCs #464, 7 DCs #480, 10 DCs #482]**(Allinanchor #104 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
    Postion #485 allinanchor: #108 --11/25/2005 [10 DCs #425, 2 DCs #481, 10 DCs #485, 4 DCs #488, 7 DCs #492]**(Allinanchor #108 on All DCs )
    Postion #425 allinanchor: #107 --11/26/2005 [2 DCs #392, 7 DCs #402, 10 DCs #425, 10 DCs #426, 4 DCs #472]**(Allinanchor #107 on 26 DCs, #108 on 6 DCs )
    Postion #425 allinanchor: #100 --11/27/2005 [4 DCs #421, 10 DCs #425, 6 DCs #437, 10 DCs #463, 3 DCs #485]**(Allinanchor #100 on All DCs )
    Postion #421 allinanchor: #102 --11/28/2005 [2 DCs #398, 10 DCs #421, 4 DCs #443, 6 DCs #444, 4 DCs #450, 4 DCs #463, 3 DCs #467]**(Allinanchor #100 on 10 DCs, #102 on 21 DCs, #116 on 2 DCs )
    Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/29/2005 [4 DCs #402, 3 DCs #409, 4 DCs #411, 10 DCs #436, 12 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 12 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs )

    Postion n/f allinanchor: #119 -11/30/2005 [6 DCs #397, 10 DCs #399, 3 DCs #424, 14 DCs #n/f]** (Note: Allinanchor #118 on 10 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs, #120 on 2 DCs )

    Cache Date: Nov 19, 2005 23:13:23 GMT
    _____________________________________________________
    note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
    number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

    142 - 11/16/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    140 - 11/19/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    149 - 11/21/2005
    142 - 11/22/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    105 - 11/24/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    101 - 11/26/2005
    100 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
    Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
    0 - 4/20/2004
    3 - 5/04/2004
    Unchanged from previous date
    2 - 6/17/2004
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________
    Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
    Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
    Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
    4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
    Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
    Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

    418 - 11/04/2005
    409 - 11/05/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    2300 - 11/09/2005
    2290 - 11/10/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    409 - 11/17/2005
    2290 - 11/18/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    2280 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
    Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
    Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

    156 - 9/08/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    155 - 10/06/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    138 - 11/04/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    147 - 11/19/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    145 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    *August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

    Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

    Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

    606 - 1/29/2005
    457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
    251 - 2/12/2005
    261 - 3/03/2005
    273 - 3/18/2005
    275 - 3/19/2005
    508 - 4/09/2005
    560 - 5/20/2005
    627 - 6/14/2005
    536 - 6/25/2005
    584 - 7/11/2005
    631 - 7/29/2005
    15,785 - 8/19/2005
    3891 - 10/20/2005
    3904 - 10/26/2005
    3699 - 11/08/2005
    3461 - 11/28/2005
    __________________

    Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
    (Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

    Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

    Number Indexed by Google

    40 - 12/23/2004
    48 - 12/24/2004
    107 - 12/30/2004
    115 - 1/2/2005
    116 - 1/21/2005
    108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
    __________________

    PR/Backlink info

    ~ April 22 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    143 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ March 3 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    113 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ February 3 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    260 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ January 1 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
    ___________
    ~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
    155 Backlinks
    (Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
    ___________

    "A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
    __________________
    Note:Google API has page at #n/a

    [​IMG]
     
    mcdar, Nov 30, 2005 IP
  9. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2529
    Postion n/f allinanchor: #119 -11/30/2005
    6 DCs #397,
    10 DCs #399,
    3 DCs #424,
    14 DCs #n/f

    Allinanchor
    #118 on 10 DCs,
    #119 on 21 DCs,
    #120 on 2 DCs


    Cache Date: Nov 19, 2005 23:13:23 GMT

    The page is back on some Datacenters but
    at this point, the results for this page just seem random!
     
    mcdar, Nov 30, 2005 IP
  10. dkalweit

    dkalweit Well-Known Member

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    #2530
    This is the first time I've tried sitemaps. So far, it's just been sitting there for a while without the sitemap even being retrieved yet. I'm just trying to do something to get back into the index...


    The site of mine that dropped out of the cache over a week ago now has been online since 1999-- not exactly a new site... Thousands of pages crawled, thousands of incoming links, etc... Google's got problems for sure...


    --
    Derek
     
    dkalweit, Nov 30, 2005 IP
  11. dkalweit

    dkalweit Well-Known Member

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    #2531
    Neg rep on my clarification per McDar's request? Thanks a lot. Someone big, too-- dropped my rep by 12 points...


    --
    Derek
     
    dkalweit, Nov 30, 2005 IP
    mcdar, compar, SEbasic and 3 others like this.
  12. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2532
    Does anyone else find these results to be curious...

    [​IMG]

    is Yahoo really all that independent or do they still get data from Google?

    PS - MSN results are still at position #5
     
    mcdar, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  13. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2533
    NEW PAGE UPDATE:
    *Google PR/Backlink update
    **33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


    The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
    04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

    Search for "Sleeping Bags"
    _____________
    NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
    You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
    ________________
    Last 10 days

    Postion #16 allinanchor: #84 --11/20/2005 [16 DCs #16, 4 DCs #331, 10 DCs #332, 3 DCs #334]]**(Allinanchor #32 on 16 DCs, #84 on 17 DCs )
    Postion #331 allinanchor: #84 --11/21/2005 [10 DCs #15, 2 DCs #63, 4 DCs #302, 4 DCs #309, 3 DCs #316, 10 DCs #331]**(Allinanchor #20 on 2 DCs, #33 on 10 DCs, #83 on 7 DCs, #84 on 14 DCs )
    Postion #461 allinanchor: #102 --11/22/2005 [10 DCs #132, 4 DCs #339, 3 DCs #422, 10 DCs #461, 2 DCs #483, 4 DCs #484]**(Allinanchor #27 on 10 DCs, #85 on 4 DCs, #102 on 19 DCs )
    Postion #430 allinanchor: #105 --11/23/2005 [12 DCs #430, 4 DCs #434, 9 DCs #446, 4 DCs #451, 4 DCs #487]**(Allinanchor #102 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
    Postion #482 allinanchor: #105 --11/24/2005 [10 DCs #430, 2 DCs #462, 4 DCs #464, 7 DCs #480, 10 DCs #482]**(Allinanchor #104 on 6 DCs, #105 on 27 DCs )
    Postion #485 allinanchor: #108 --11/25/2005 [10 DCs #425, 2 DCs #481, 10 DCs #485, 4 DCs #488, 7 DCs #492]**(Allinanchor #108 on All DCs )
    Postion #425 allinanchor: #107 --11/26/2005 [2 DCs #392, 7 DCs #402, 10 DCs #425, 10 DCs #426, 4 DCs #472]**(Allinanchor #107 on 26 DCs, #108 on 6 DCs )
    Postion #425 allinanchor: #100 --11/27/2005 [4 DCs #421, 10 DCs #425, 6 DCs #437, 10 DCs #463, 3 DCs #485]**(Allinanchor #100 on All DCs )
    Postion #421 allinanchor: #102 --11/28/2005 [2 DCs #398, 10 DCs #421, 4 DCs #443, 6 DCs #444, 4 DCs #450, 4 DCs #463, 3 DCs #467]**(Allinanchor #100 on 10 DCs, #102 on 21 DCs, #116 on 2 DCs )
    Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/29/2005 [4 DCs #402, 3 DCs #409, 4 DCs #411, 10 DCs #436, 12 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 12 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs )
    Postion #n/f allinanchor: #119 --11/30/2005 [6 DCs #397, 10 DCs #399, 3 DCs #424, 14 DCs #n/f]**(Allinanchor #118 on 10 DCs, #119 on 21 DCs, #120 on 2 DCs )

    Postion #415 allinanchor: #119 -12/01/2005 [10 DCs #395, 6 DCs #402, 4 DCs #422, 10 DCs #415, 3 DCs #n/f]** (Note: Allinanchor #119 on All DCs )

    Cache Date: Nov 19, 2005 23:13:23 GMT
    _____________________________________________________
    note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
    number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

    142 - 11/16/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    140 - 11/19/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    149 - 11/21/2005
    142 - 11/22/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    105 - 11/24/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    101 - 11/26/2005
    100 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
    Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
    0 - 4/20/2004
    3 - 5/04/2004
    Unchanged from previous date
    2 - 6/17/2004
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________
    Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
    Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
    Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
    4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
    Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
    Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

    418 - 11/04/2005
    409 - 11/05/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    2300 - 11/09/2005
    2290 - 11/10/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    409 - 11/17/2005
    2290 - 11/18/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    2280 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
    Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
    Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

    156 - 9/08/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    155 - 10/06/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    138 - 11/04/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    147 - 11/19/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    145 - 11/27/2005
    Unchanged from previous date
    __________________

    *August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

    Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

    Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

    606 - 1/29/2005
    457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
    251 - 2/12/2005
    261 - 3/03/2005
    273 - 3/18/2005
    275 - 3/19/2005
    508 - 4/09/2005
    560 - 5/20/2005
    627 - 6/14/2005
    536 - 6/25/2005
    584 - 7/11/2005
    631 - 7/29/2005
    15,785 - 8/19/2005
    3891 - 10/20/2005
    3904 - 10/26/2005
    3699 - 11/08/2005
    3461 - 11/28/2005
    __________________

    Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
    (Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

    Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

    Number Indexed by Google

    40 - 12/23/2004
    48 - 12/24/2004
    107 - 12/30/2004
    115 - 1/2/2005
    116 - 1/21/2005
    108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
    __________________

    PR/Backlink info

    ~ April 22 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    143 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ March 3 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    113 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ February 3 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    260 Backlinks reported
    ___________

    ~ January 1 Update ~
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
    268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
    ___________
    ~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
    sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
    155 Backlinks
    (Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
    ___________

    "A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
    __________________
    Note:Google API has page at #n/a

    [​IMG]
     
    mcdar, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  14. classifieds

    classifieds Sopchoppy Flash

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    #2534
    hhhhmmmm. . . Very interesting.

    I've heard a few conspiracy theories about G & Y working together on other forums but I've always written the people off as quacks.

    I guess it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you?

     
    classifieds, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  15. compar

    compar Peon

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    #2535
    Wow! That's very interesting. I can't seem to get listed in any SERPs but MSN these days. I've never tried to figure out what Yahoo was doing, but that is an amazing parallel between the two sets of results.
     
    compar, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  16. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #2536
    Too right...

    This (IMO) is the most interesting stat to come out of this thread in a while (From my point of view anyway).
     
    SEbasic, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  17. gford

    gford Peon

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    #2537
    That would be highly amusing if yahoo used google's engine now. :p
     
    gford, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  18. rustybrick

    rustybrick User ID 3

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    #2538
    Do you have other examples of G vs. Y? SEBasic, PM me again if they do, please. :)
     
    rustybrick, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  19. mcdar

    mcdar Peon

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    #2539
    Hi Rusty,

    No, I do not have any other examples.

    BUT others just might.

    I have had a theory that Google had "lost/dropped" some sort of (what I have been referring to as) "pre-score" data regarding this experiment page.

    In turn - this page has been positioned in the serps more like a "sandboxed" page.

    IF - Google has such information - it certainly would be a valuable resource that could be ranked by a different algorithim (i.e. Yahoo).

    The unique factor about this particular page is that Google dropped it entirely from the results over the last couple of days. It has returned now but ranks very poorly.

    If you can locate others who have experienced a similar fate AND they track the keywords for both Google and Yahoo, daily, on the the Keyword Tracker - have them LOOK!

    If they are not looking for it - they most likely will never realize.

    I caught it just by accident.

    Caryl

    PS - I would like to add here that I just searched Yahoo and INDEED the page went from position #1 to NOT FOUND at all in Yahoo for the search for that term. Totally gone...
     
    mcdar, Dec 1, 2005 IP
  20. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #2540
    I do not rank for any terms on yahoo for my main site, yet I have thousands of top 3 on google for the same site. I asked yahoo for a reinclusion request months ago, but nada.
     
    lorien1973, Dec 1, 2005 IP
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