Im losing money to Adwords scammers

So here i am paying 30c+ for adwords. And charging the lowest possible price for what i sell.

And who is my biggest competitor? A bunchy of scammers. And nothing gets done about it. Why?

1) the product is sold as a service. Its just a code i send to the customer. Cost price of the codes varies, but its nowhere near as cheap as 6-7$. So these scammers put up a site, put an obsurdly low price, and email the customer a bogus product. Paypal wont do anything about it because its a service..and paypal could care less about whether you got scammed or not. Try escalating a claim for a service. The seller wins automatically and you the buyer are out of your money. So case closed you cant do anything in terms of paypal. And whos gonna charge back 6-7$ and lose their account over that?

2) google makes it A HUGE hassle to get these guys removed. I emailed them once, telling them these guys are selling scam products. And i got an email with a list of things i needed to send back to them and they would look into it. Apparently the page i sent them with 30+ customer reviews all complaining about how they got scammed, wasnt enough.

So moral of the story..google adwords just wants that sweet pay per click cash. Trying to get a scamming competitor shut down is a huge hassle. And what happends when he gets shut down after this headache you go threw? Scanners can just register another domain and start selling again.

 

It's pretty easy to get Google to shut down scam ads, actually. What search terms are you talking about?

 

You shouldn't set your bids based on what other people are doing anyway. The most profitable bid for you is determined by your conversion rate and the profit that you make from each conversion.

The Quality Score and the adjusted bids from your competitors affect the volume of traffic that you'll get (by determining the position of your adverts), but not the amount that you should be bidding.

See the following link for an example of what I mean: http://www.epiphanysolutions.co.uk/...is-no-harder-than-on-uncompetitive-terms.html


Regarding scammers, just point them out to Google - it's in their interests to get rid of these people (as tvmatt just said).

 

Hi all,havent been here for a while but after seeing this website:

http://www.googlefreeadsnow.com/

i just had to ask the question.Is this a genuine,can you really get free google ads.Its only $67 so i suppose its not a lot of money if it works but i am always scepticle and have bought so much rubbish recently.

I would appreciate it if any body else has bought this could they please reply,thanks all,Mark

 

It's the same as someone saying "free car!" - although you need to pay $20K up front, if you use it in a taxi business for a year, your earnings will have covered the $20K, "effectively" making the car free!

I don't know how some of these marketing genuises sleep at night.

 

No business in their right mind would use internet reviews as a basis for determining if something was a "scam".

They told you what you needed to send them. If that's too much to do live with it or advertise elsewhere.

 

i do advertise elsewhere. And the aholes advertise there too. When you make 100% profit you can afford to advertise anywhere.

i think when every single review is negative..and i mean every single one..on several different sites..and your prices you charge are impossible... i think it should be a bit of a hint. It would be like me advertising giant screen tv sets for 25$. Brand new..no strings attached.

And i have no problem sending them what they need. Its the fact that

1) its a lot to send over..they want proof they scammed me as well..so i need to go ahead and buy a scam product. Which i already have, but it dates back months ago.

2) im assuming they would just pull down the guys ads. If they would cancel his account it would at least make his life a little more difficult. Otherwise its not even worth the hassle

its your "well advertise elswhere" mentality that makes ppc click fraud and scams exactly what scammers are looking for. They love the fact that it takes so much to get them shut down. Its what keeps them in business. I wonder how much quicker google acts on potential adsense fraud then they do on google adwords. Do they email you asking them to send them a list of information to prove your site is legit? With logs and traffic stats? Or do they just suspend your account?

 

Anyone can write fake reviews/comments. I could put up a site with 50 bad reviews about any product or service in 30 mintues. As I said earlier, no business in their right mind would base a decision as important as terminating an advertiser based on internet reviews.

So you're upset that Google wants actual proof? Think that through.

So if I report you as a scammer you would prefer that Google just terminates your ability to advertise based on my report? That's what you're asking them to do to the person you're reporting.

Maybe it's your "Otherwise its not even worth the hassle" attitude that makes PPC exactly what scammers are looking for?

You can sum what I said very simply - if you think policing your market in terms of the ads being shown is too much work go advertise elsewhere. AdWords just isn't for you. AdWords is marketing and last I checked marketing is work.

I'm not trying to be difficult just pointing out that your expectations as to what Google should do are unreasonable at best. You're basically saying that everytime someone e-mails/contacts them to let them know about a "scam" they should just shut down the reported campaign or account.

They do their due dillegence before terminating an advertiser. I for one am glad they have such safegaurds in place.

 

Hehehh......That technique was in a book I reading...Ahh the wonders of autoship. Lots of profit to be made, just not very ethical.

 

1) THEIR PRODUCT PRICES ARE IMPOSSIBLE. THAT ALONE is MORE then enough to raise a red flag.

2) Your telling me that googling a company and finding nothing but people complaining isnt proof enough that a company is a scam? Ok..well I have a few people from nigeria who have millions locked in a bank account. ill give you their email address.


IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a company to have NOTHING BUT BAD REVIEWS, and sell a product at a price that CANNOT POSSIBLY be that cheap. If you can somhow pull something out of your ass to argue those to points and tell me that isnt proof enough of a scam then have at it.

Furthermore Its impossible for a legit company to have nothing but bad reviews..It is possible that more people will report situations where they got jipped more so then a trasaction being complete. But dont try and tell me when everything you hear about a company is bad, that anyone in their right mind would blow it off and still thnk "well...you know what..its the internet..so i shouldnt really take it for face value".


and look at what you wrote: "So if I report you as a scammer you would prefer that Google just terminates your ability to advertise based on my report? That's what you're asking them to do to the person you're reporting."

WRONG. Im saying the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. 1 person sending "proof" to google solves nothing. With a virtual product there is no tracking number saying i got the product. There is 0 proof. Its his word against mine. There is no such thing as "actual proof" in this case, thats my whole point.

So ultimately it comes back to what i said. The best way to get your proof is to look at what i had already sent them, coupled with 5 minutes on a search engine, to see that the company is nothing but pure BS selling a fake product. And tahts all there is to it. Im not the one being unreasonable. Im being VERY reasonable..You are being unreasonable telling me to send them real proof when anything i could send to them would never even come close to 5 minutes of research they could perform themselves.

Im goint to start selling brand new corvettes on adwords for 1000$. Ill reserve one for you. Oh and dont listen to what others are saying, thats just some crap other people made up...come on man. Seriously.

 

@Kellogs2K3

You think that Internet reviews should be used as a basis for terminating advertisers. That's beyond ridiculous. If you can't acknowledge the fact that that's a flawed method for determining the legitimacy of a product or service you're in for rough times in the online space. You expect Google to terminate an advertiser based on your sole complaint...imagine the chaos if they adopted such a silly policy.

In terms of "THEIR PRODUCT PRICES ARE IMPOSSIBLE"...ever heard the term "loss leader"?

If it's really that big of deal to you maybe you should consider giving Google what they asked you to provide? Any reasonable person would understand that companies can't take serious action (and terminating a users ability to advertise is serious) based on a report from a single user.

 

Are you seriously even reading a word im saying or do you just keep spewing the same crap out all the time?

I told you i dont want google to take 1 persons opinion on whether the company is legit or not. Because that can be easily falsified. Furthermore most buyers dont complain to gogle. they complain to paypal. So its more likely a competitor who would turn him in and could be doing it just for spite.

WITH THAT SAID, I said that google can do 5 minutes of research and see that every single post and mention of the company is bad. And there you go again saying that reviews arent important. Well again you tell me, WHAT IS IMPORTANT? If the customers who buy the products are clearly ALL WRONG, then go ahead mr genius..tell me what better way to judge whether something is legit or not then by FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. I guess the BBB is full of sh*t too. ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR A CHANGE.

And I dont even think you know what a loss leader is. As a loss leader you want people to buy something else off you or build some sort of relationship to cash in on them in the future. But if your selling just 1 product, at nearly the 1/10th the COST PRICE, FOR OVER 6 MONTHS, thats not a loss leader. Thats an impossible business model. IE, A SCAM.

nobody can possibly charge 5$ for an iteam whose cost price is 40$.

You really lack the common sence skills of being able to detect a scam. Its freakin unbeleivable. Do you want me to send you the website so you can buy the product and get scammed yourself? because its obvious to me that you beleive they arent scammers.

go ahead and try hard to make up an argument..ill start up another thread and have people vote on what a joke you are.

 

So Google should:

1) Conduct research on every "scam" complaint they receive.
2) Research is defined as Googling the product/service.
2) Base their decision on Internet based reviews.

Decisions surrounding terminating an advertiser should be based on verfiable facts and evidence.

They could be building a list and renting/selling it, backending products via e-mail, etc. In some cases businesses takes losses on customers for YEARS knowing that profitability comes at a later point.

That is 100% incorrect. LTV. They just spent $35 to aquire a customer. That's actually a low aqisition cost in the grand scheme of things.

I could care less about the website or it's "scamminess". I was simply pointing out your opinions on how Google should handle things are narrow minded and you're not looking beyond your own issue. Like any company, Google needs policies and procedures that can handle all forms of complaints. They can't just take you (or internet based reviews) at face value.

Make it poll with %'s so people can vote for what % of a joke I am

Typically people like yourself come in ranting, raving and attacking everyone who attempts to engage them in a dialogue don't hang around long anyway. Rational, adult conversations are understandably just too much for some people. If I had just posted "yea, Google sucks man" would you have felt better? What were you hoping to accomplish/learn with your initial post?

 

1) Google SHOULD
a) use common sence when evaluating whether a company is selling a scam. If smeone reports a company is a scam and i send them in proof they asked for, they wil have to conduct some sort of research REGARDLESS. I beleive that would involve looking into whether others have been scammed, yes.

b) again you bring up the whole "verifiable facts".
Go ahead and tell me whats a verifiable act when it comes to a virtual product or service. Dont skip around the question like you keep doing. Whats a verifiable act for a virtual product, go ahead. Prove to me that they rendered the service or product. ITS NOT POSSIBLE

Unless PAYPAL or a credit card processor releases the complaints filed against the company, which they wont, then there is absolutely no way of verifying anything with 100% certainty if the company is a scam. So you either sit in your ass and wait for more complaints to come in, which they may never, or you actually do something about it. Be a leader for a change.

Furthermore the proof that you are asking for which you say is so "verifiable" can be faked EVEN EASIER if thats what it came down to.

i dont know who ltv is. For all i know LTV deals with real estate or a lawfirm in which case investing 35$ on someone who could return hundreds or thousands of dollars is of course extremely realistic. We are dealing with a product that yields at best a 15$ profit. Basically your telling me this joke of a website that looks like it was made by a 13 year old that only accepts paypal is investing thousands per WEEK to gather some email addresses.


Your using this whole "oh well its possible" mentality, rather then using a SHRED of common sence. You applying the same gabage tactics that google does. "Oh well its possible". No, no its not possible. Every case needs to be looked at differently. And if google would allow its customer service members to put in a shred of common sence when they evaluate a case then scams like these would be much harder to pull off. My opinins are not narrow minded at all. They are actually 100% realistic, and use the same mentality that anyone would apply when trying to debunk whether a product was a scam or not.

If we were to take what you say and aply it, then any scam could operate freely, forever, without being stopped. Basically your saying:

1) the price you charge for the product is totally irelevent and shoudlnt raise any suspision what so ever.

2) the opinions of others has no merit when it comes to deciding whether a site is a scam.

3) only the google gods somehow have the knowledge and power of knowing if a site is a scam.


your problem is you keep trying VERY HARD to imagine situations where it COULD be possible that the site is legit. And rather then say "hmm that seems like it could be a scam", you come up with these extreme cases trying to justify how it isnt a scam. Do you realise as someone who uses the internet, if they applied your mentality, how many times they would get RIPPED OFF?

 

I for one don't "common sense" to be the default deciding factor in investigations that have the potential to ruin someone's business. Of course I hope it's used at some point but it shouldn't be the first option.

By sending them what they have asked for ("proof") you've further qualified yourself as someone who may have a real issue that needs to be addressed, not just some aggravated advertiser. Why don't you just send them what they asked for?

All depends on the system(s) and procedures in place that facilitated the transaction and delivery of the product or service. Any legal agreements or terms and conditions associated with the transaction would need to taken into consideration as well. In most cases "legally binding" = good enough for most situations.

My whole point with your opinion on how Google should handle the issue is that like any company, Google needs policies and procedures that can handle all forms of complaints. They can't just take you (or internet based reviews) at face value.

What change exactly are you trying to lead?

ltv = lifetime value.

No, that was simply a single example of how one could monetize a customer on the back end. I don't know a thing about the website that is specific to your issue. It was also in response to your assertion that no company could ever lose money on the initial sale and remain in business and that price alone should be some sort of fraud indicator. The most expensive thing most businesses do is aquire a customer. The real profit comes on the back end.

Perhaps I'm viewing and therefore discussing this from a different point of view. I'm looking at it from a "how do we handle potential fraudulent advertising when we have hundreds of thousands of advertisers" and it appears you're interested in only discussing your specific situation.

Why don't you just send Google what they asked you to send them?

I agree and am they glad they policies in place to facilitate this.

Somehow I doubt the customer service reps answering the phone are the ones doing the investigations. They just take the info (which they asked you to send, right?) and pass it to the right folks. That would be my guess anyway. I'm sure common sense is used by by the people who conduct the investigations. As others have said, it's pretty easy to get fraudulent ads pulled.

We'll just have to disagree. I don't want "common sense" to be the default method of taking actions as serious as terminating someone's ability to advertise.

Price alone should be any sort of "fraud alarm".

Unverifiable user generated comments on the web should be not a deciding factor in the termination of one's account.

I don't recall saying that at all. I said they have a system in place, have asked you to provide info, and at least from what I can you haven't and are angry that they just won't take action because you said they should.

I'm not trying hard to do anything and could honestly care less if the site is legit. For all I know it's a scam site run by a bunch of dirty scammers scamming everyone they can. I'm 100% sure it's a scam if that makes you feel better. I wasn't commenting on a specific site. I was commenting on why I thought your expectation as to how Google should handle the situation is not realistic. It's not two guys in a garage anymore, they are a large company with legal obligations to all involved parties.

 

I would do what Google asked you to if you want to get rid of these people... they can't afford a lawsuit (well they can but they don't want it)... that list they sent was well thought through... If it is a scam you may want to get people that complain to launch a formal complaint with the authority See FTC, postal service or whoever else you can get involved...

 

at this point of course il have to send them what they want..but im looking at the big picture in all this.

once they do get the information..what then.

they obviously dont care about what other people on the net have to say about a company so I need to contact all these people myself and ask that they complain as well. Since i highly doubt that google act on 1 complaint. So lets say that works..lets say after me sending everyhthing in and i get a bunch of people to complain too, google will take the site down, or i would hope they do.

after all that nothing has been solved. Thats my point.

will google shut down his adwords account? Not likely. Even If they did, would they block his ip from registering another account? Is his card flagged and blocked from registering another account? After taking the time, and who knows how long before they actually act on it, when something does get done, will it be enough? Will it prevent him from doing what hes done ever again? No..hell just register another domain and relist his site. Hes back up in 20 minutes. The system in place a) makes it too easy for scamers to start up b) too slow to stop them c)to easy for them to start right up again. And all this is only made EASIER by the fact that these rules in place dont require that people who work for google use a tiny bit of common sence to investigate or pause a campaing when there are obvious signs of a scam operating. Apparently you dont think that a COMBINATION of OBVIOUS key signs of a scam merits labeling a site a potential scam. But gimme a break, when someone emails complaining about the site and all these factors are right there in front of them at least PAUSE the caimpaign while you look into the matter. Otherewise these types of adword scams will go on FOR EVER, with no way of stopping them.


when adsence SUSPECTS they are being cheated, do they suspend the account, or do they email the website owner asking for specific information about the site before acting?

 

Why Google? Why not Internet service providers, hosting companies who host their sites?

You are at fault putting Google at place here. Google is NOT internet law enforcement. They are in business and they will do anything only if its causing their business harm.

 

You're arriving at that conclusion without even doing anything. Why don't you send them the info and see what actually happens rather than just continuing to complain about what you think might happen?\

I still have to disagree that you're looking at the the big picture...unless to you the big picture is your situation.

And here we are again with "Google should just shut off the account because I said so" way of thinking. Please read my previous replies.

They e-mail the the site owner. I know because I've been the recipient of such e-mails more than once.

 

Sure google emails their adsense customers..In most cases its to to tell them their account has been closed or suspended. Thanks, Hows about asking for some proof just the way you do for adwords. Adwords proof is ALWAYS NEEDED before they will act. But adsence DOESNT always ask for any proof from the site owner for them to act.

You keep telling me to just send the info..i will, so dont bother bringing it up, im past that already. Now im just arguing with a guy who couldnt spot a scam if it punched him im the face. Everything with you is OK regardless of how ridiculous the circumstances. If i listed a house for 1$ on adwords you would tell me its someone looking upsell them a toaster after they moved in. Seriously what would you do if someome was selling a new corvette for say 1000$ on google adwords, shipped to your door. You would buy it right? We know you wouldnt research it because any testimonials are fake. And we know you would think its legit because the price plays no factor. So i guess that just leaves clicking the buy button and sending in your money.

And you keep talking about the big picture. i AM looking at the big picture. The big picture is basically send in the evidence like you would for anything else, and they can look into the matter. But my whole argument from the get go has been that the BIG PICTURE IS THE PROBLEM. You dont tackle time sensitive scams the same way you do for everything else. By the time anything gets done 200 more people have been scammed. And because the system is so flawed the scammer will rejoin with a new domain in 20 minutes anyways. I guess implementing a better way to stop scammers who pop up one day and are gone the next was never part of the big picture..