McDar Experiment

Yes I do understand your point. I also understand ramifications of such a penalty, but I also know that google has a way of half-thought out penalties for sites that really make no sense anyways. (RE: Florida and the onpage optimization fiasco).

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/31688-35-10.htm
Post 346 is a another person who says they "see it"

I'm not saying its happening, but I always wonder about it. I do have a single page on one of my sites that hit a brand name very hard. I am #1 for it now (across the board - every engine). It hasn't dropped. If a "BLOOP" existed, I'd think it'd be the first page to go.

I know I'm being irrational, here. I need venting time

 

the other side of the tree...

My site bombed as the result of Florida!

It was in position #15 and went to NOT FOUND in the blink of an eye.

THE ONLY reason it was at position #15 was due soley to on-page optimization. I had maybe one or two links to the site.

Pre Florida you could rank well with good on-page optimization. BUT with the Florida Update, Google totally switched to value linking OVER on-page factors.

Google did NOT impose penalties they simply switched priorities!!

After Florida, everyone ran to accumulate LINKS and tons of them. Link Farms sprouted everywhere! (Link Farm: a site developed soley for purpose of producing links).

When that got out of control, Google switched priorities again. This time links from different c-blocks (ip addresses) carried most weight. Site wides from link farms simply lost value.

As the result of that update, sites that gained ranking based mostly on link farm links, dropped like rocks (because they had all of their "links" in one basket so to speak )

You see what I am getting at here?

Caryl

 

Yes I totally do.

I never actually thought about "Florida" that deeply. I had assumed it was an actual penalty imposed on sites for, what, at the time, was good SEO (making your main keyword set the last thing the spider sees on your page).

Assuming sites don't return after part 33 1/3 (a la naked gun) of Jagger, its probably just figuring out what "changed" and going with the flow. And recovery will happen, like in Florida.

 

But, but this does not lend creedence to the broke theory. Just curious if this was referred to as 'broke' when it happened?

Does this type of program change keep us hopping, therefore the system is intentionally 'broke'. I am not trying to beat a dead horse with this broke thing, but I have been in another conversations with Compar about this sort of thing that was deemed to be broke as well. As we progressed through conversation in the thread we came to the conclusion that Google was not broke but likely using LSI/ LSA.

My point is that new algos seem to always end up sticking after the 'broke' (testing) period.

The latest update absolutely flatten my Google traffic. In the last 2 weeks I have gone from not in top 500 to 17th (today). So we are still rocking with a possible 1-2 weeks of serp movement according to Matt (Jagger 3).

I have glanced this thread over a few times and what it shows me is how often Google IS changing priorities and how increasingly difficult they are becoming to SES for.

 

Just caught the page as #13 on the update dc.

Guess we will see what happens over time.

Dave

 

I'm seeing the "new" results on 64.233.167.* datacenters now as well!

Datacenters with "new results (Position #13)
64.233.167.99
64.233.167.104
66.102.9.99
66.102.9.104
66.102.11.99
66.102.11.104

and intermittently on 64.233.161.*

Caryl

 

What allinachor is it showing. I can't believe we will see a permanent recovery until the allinanchor recovers. If we do then we have to toss out that theory.

 

Homer,

No, it does not discount the "Googles Broke" theory.

In the end, the changed algo will probably effect most sites very little. That is not to say Google is not implementing changes.

HOWEVER, It has been their MO to roll out changes across all of the Datacenters and then spend the next few weeks working out the bugs.

Once the bugs are worked out, most sites come back from the depths to resume normal positioning.

PROBLEM has been, when this sort of Google Event happens, many folks panic and run to make desparate changes. Lord, only knows how THOSE changes effect the results once G has resolved it's issues.

This time it seems to be a little different. Maby folks are waiting this one out (at least on this forum) so we may truely get a real assessment of the outcome.

No, I do not believe it is intentionally broke. It dos'nt need to be. Google has kept us hopping by obsurring pertinent data that would allow us to optimize better. ie links. Google has NOT reported links accurately for over a year now. This makes it extremely difficult to assess your competition.

I STILL stand by my original theory that Google rolled this update out prematurely and some "pre-scored" data for some websites was lost/dropped/corrupted. This inadvertantly caused many websites to end up in the very same positions "sandboxed" websites reside. Sandboxed websites reside there because they have not previously been "pre-scored".

Mind you - this is an overly simplistic explaination of this theory I have. I just a lack the education/knowledge in that area.

Well, it has been a long day and now I don't even know if I am making sense...

Caryl

 

You always make sense Caryl - no matter what the time of day!!!

 

Caryl,

Is something up with the q check?

I'm getting some screwy indexed pages results.

 

Hello SEbasic

Yes, I just noticed that problem, I'll look into it today.

Caryl

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #753 allinanchor: #794 --10/17/2005 [3 DCs #12, 2 DCs #486, 5 DCs #742, 2 DCs #743, 4 DCs #744, 10 DCs #753, 6 DCs #764]**(Note: Allinanchor #793 on 6 DCs, #794 on 14 DCs, #795 on 6 DCs, #796 on 3 DCs, #798 on 4 DCs)
Postion #26 allinanchor: #806 --10/18/2005 [10 DCs #26, 23 DCs #27]**(Note: Allinanchor #804 on 5 DCs, #806 on 20 DCs, #807 on 6 DCs, #808 on 2 DCs)
Postion #768 allinanchor: #795 --10/19/2005 [3 DCs #749, 2 DCs #750, 2 DCs #753, 4 DCs #755, 6 DCs #758, 4 DCs #759, 8 DCs #768, 4 DCs #770]**(Note: Allinanchor #793 on 5 DCs, #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 10 DCs, #796 on 4 DCs, #797 on 6 DCs, #799 on 4 DCs)
Postion #767 allinanchor: #795 --10/20/2005 [10 DCs #486, 9 DCs #761, 4 DCs #765, 10 DCs #767]**(Note: Allinanchor #789 on 2 DCs, #791 on 5 DCs, #792 on 4 DCs, #793 on 6 DCs, #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 12 DCs)
Postion #769 allinanchor: #792 --10/21/2005 [2 DCs #761, 6 DCs #767, 9 DCs #769, 7 DCs #770, 9 DCs #771]**(Note: Allinanchor #782 on 2 DCs, #787 on 5 DCs, #788 on 6 DCs, #789 on 4 DCs, #792 on 4 DCs, #790 on 10 DCs, #802 on 2 DCs)
Postion #28 allinanchor: #802 --10/22/2005 [4 DCs #26, 9 DCs #27, 14 DCs #28, 6 DCs #767]**(Note: Allinanchor #788 on 6 DCs, #794 on 5 DCs, #797 on 2 DCs, #802 on 10 DCs, #804 on 4 DCs, #805 on 4 DCs)
Postion #26 allinanchor: #803 --10/23/2005 [15 DCs #25, 16 DCs #26, 2 DCs #27]**(Note: Allinanchor #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 6 DCs, #796 on 4 DCs, #798 on 2 DCs, #801 on 4 DCs, #803 on 12 DCs)
Postion #26 allinanchor: #799 --10/24/2005 [29 DCs #26, 4 DCs #28]**(Note: Allinanchor #798 on 4 DCs, #799 on 11 DCs, #800 on 10 DCs, #802 on 6 DCs, #804 on 2 DCs)
Postion #28 allinanchor: #801 --10/25/2005 [17 DCs #28, 14 DCs #29, 2 DCs #30]**(Note: Allinanchor #797 on 5 DCs,#798 on 4 DCs, #801 on 6 DCs, #803 on 2 DCs, #806 on 6 DCs, #807 on 4 DCs, #808 on 2 DCs, #809 on 4 DCs)
Postion #30 allinanchor: #803 --10/26/2005 [2 DCs #13, 10 DCs #28, 4 DCs #29, 12 DCs #30, 5 DCs #31]**(Note: Allinanchor #802 on 2 DCs, #803 on 11 DCs, #804 on 10 DCs, #806 on 10 DCs)

Postion #30 allinanchor: #803 -10/27/2005 [4 DCs #15, 9 DCs #29, 20 DCs #30]** (Note: Allinanchor #801 on 11 DCs, #803 on 12 DCs, #804 on 10 DCs)

Cache Date: Oct 26, 2005 02:40:48 GMT
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

152 - 9/28/2005
Unchanged from previous date
155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
150 - 10/18/2005
Unchanged from previous date
154 - 10/18/2005
157 - 10/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

1130 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1090 - 10/12/2005
1080 - 10/13/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1070 - 10/18/2005
1050 - 10/19/2005
1040 - 10/20/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1050 - 10/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

81 - 8/31/2005
79 - 9/01/2005
Unchanged from previous date
91 - 9/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
156 - 9/08/2005
Unchanged from previous date
155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
251 - 2/12/2005
261 - 3/03/2005
273 - 3/18/2005
275 - 3/19/2005
508 - 4/09/2005
560 - 5/20/2005
627 - 6/14/2005
536 - 6/25/2005
584 - 7/11/2005
631 - 7/29/2005
15,785 - 8/19/2005
3891 - 10/20/2005
3904 - 10/26/2005
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________

PR/Backlink info

~ April 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
143 Backlinks reported
___________

~ March 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
113 Backlinks reported
___________

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
260 Backlinks reported
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

"A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
__________________
Note:Google API has page at #29

 

Are you holding firm on your previous thoughts? I'm looking at the "new" jagger 2 results and am still shaking my head. I'm holding out, but man, if second week of Nov comes around and I'm in the same position, this is gonna be a crappy christmas.

 

Yes, I am still holding firm.

This update rolled out slowly. Not all were effected in the first wave/s. I suspect Googles subsequent "fixes/adjustments" might even be rolled out with a bit more caution.

I have seen the "new" results on the 66.102.9.* and 66.102.11.* Datacenter Banks consistantly but I am also seeing the "new" results, sporadically, on 64.233.167.* and 216.239.37.* Datacenter Banks. (different from one refresh to the next)

This is a "work in progress"!

Caryl

 

The allinanchor results are still very bizarre. Historically, over this experiment allinanchor ranking has been better than serps.

Its a little worse. wonder what is going on at the googleplex?

 

I don't see a change of allinanchor for the un-effected sites in the top ten. SO, I attribute this "bizarre" allinanchor ranking to the "corrupt/lost/dropped" pre-score information.

I still believe, when Google resolves it's issues or replaces the information, the allinanchor rankings will drop back to "normal".

Caryl

 

Caryl:

It just struck me. If google "wrongly" cache's sites it would probably do so randomly. If that were the case all the sites in the top ten for sleeping bags would be randomly affected.

Additionally, these bizarre changes are hitting the experiment page during google updates or alternatively called "planned perfucked periods".

I am starting to check cache dates on 2 sites but I'm skeptical of that impact, if only because the wierd changes haven't occurred more often (in conjunction with possibly many wierd cache dates) and also because some of the other sites for the keyword phrase aren't being similarly affected.

What do you think about that?

I keep falling back on this thought that something about the site makes it "fragile" and susceptible to be jerked around on the google roller coaster.

Dave

 

From what I'm noticing, stability relies on having lots of links from lots of different domains. That way, if google "mis-places" a few sites data and the links don't count for a while, you won't be harmed so much.

Before this update, I didn't even know where was a February update, I didn't see any affects from it. Only effects I noticed were this one since 2003, really.

Bourbon, it turns out...was my fault, not something google did. So, really, I was not affected by that update either.

Competitor sites that have not moved in an inch in the rankings, either have lots of links (or exchanges) from lots of different domains or relatively few links (that are high powered).

 

Dave,

If all the sites in a category were effected by something, I would not refer to it as "random".

We always seem to try and group things the way the are "grouped" in the Google results.

What we don't know is how Google spiders the internet. What if we had all people who where effected, do a trace route to their site? What if all sites effected by data loss were hosted in a particular sector of the internet? Maybe a disgruntled Google spider put all of his results in his garage and went home for the day...

These are all rediculous examples, but there certainly seems to be no obvious commonality to the sites that have been effected, that dosn't mean there isn't one.

Caryl

 

NEW PAGE UPDATE:
*Google PR/Backlink update
**33 Active DCs(6 New DC Found)**


The "New Page" sleeping-bags.htm
04/07/2004 "New Page" went live

Search for "Sleeping Bags"
_____________
NOTE: Due to size constraints, the entire report can no longer appear in a post.
You can view the entire report here... Complete Report
________________
Last 10 days

Postion #26 allinanchor: #806 --10/18/2005 [10 DCs #26, 23 DCs #27]**(Note: Allinanchor #804 on 5 DCs, #806 on 20 DCs, #807 on 6 DCs, #808 on 2 DCs)
Postion #768 allinanchor: #795 --10/19/2005 [3 DCs #749, 2 DCs #750, 2 DCs #753, 4 DCs #755, 6 DCs #758, 4 DCs #759, 8 DCs #768, 4 DCs #770]**(Note: Allinanchor #793 on 5 DCs, #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 10 DCs, #796 on 4 DCs, #797 on 6 DCs, #799 on 4 DCs)
Postion #767 allinanchor: #795 --10/20/2005 [10 DCs #486, 9 DCs #761, 4 DCs #765, 10 DCs #767]**(Note: Allinanchor #789 on 2 DCs, #791 on 5 DCs, #792 on 4 DCs, #793 on 6 DCs, #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 12 DCs)
Postion #769 allinanchor: #792 --10/21/2005 [2 DCs #761, 6 DCs #767, 9 DCs #769, 7 DCs #770, 9 DCs #771]**(Note: Allinanchor #782 on 2 DCs, #787 on 5 DCs, #788 on 6 DCs, #789 on 4 DCs, #792 on 4 DCs, #790 on 10 DCs, #802 on 2 DCs)
Postion #28 allinanchor: #802 --10/22/2005 [4 DCs #26, 9 DCs #27, 14 DCs #28, 6 DCs #767]**(Note: Allinanchor #788 on 6 DCs, #794 on 5 DCs, #797 on 2 DCs, #802 on 10 DCs, #804 on 4 DCs, #805 on 4 DCs)
Postion #26 allinanchor: #803 --10/23/2005 [15 DCs #25, 16 DCs #26, 2 DCs #27]**(Note: Allinanchor #794 on 4 DCs, #795 on 6 DCs, #796 on 4 DCs, #798 on 2 DCs, #801 on 4 DCs, #803 on 12 DCs)
Postion #26 allinanchor: #799 --10/24/2005 [29 DCs #26, 4 DCs #28]**(Note: Allinanchor #798 on 4 DCs, #799 on 11 DCs, #800 on 10 DCs, #802 on 6 DCs, #804 on 2 DCs)
Postion #28 allinanchor: #801 --10/25/2005 [17 DCs #28, 14 DCs #29, 2 DCs #30]**(Note: Allinanchor #797 on 5 DCs,#798 on 4 DCs, #801 on 6 DCs, #803 on 2 DCs, #806 on 6 DCs, #807 on 4 DCs, #808 on 2 DCs, #809 on 4 DCs)
Postion #30 allinanchor: #803 --10/26/2005 [2 DCs #13, 10 DCs #28, 4 DCs #29, 12 DCs #30, 5 DCs #31]**(Note: Allinanchor #802 on 2 DCs, #803 on 11 DCs, #804 on 10 DCs, #806 on 10 DCs)
Postion #30 allinanchor: #803 --10/27/2005 [4 DCs #15, 9 DCs #29, 20 DCs #30]**(Note: Allinanchor #801 on 11 DCs, #803 on 12 DCs, #804 on 10 DCs)

Postion #27 allinanchor: #798 -10/28/2005 [4 DCs #14, 18 DCs #27, 11 DCs #28]** (Note: Allinanchor #794 on 3 DCs, #798 on 12 DCs, #799 on 4 DCs, #802 on 4 DCs, #806 on 10 DCs)

Cache Date: Oct 27, 2005 09:10:47 GMT
_____________________________________________________
note: these pages are found using ( site:www.compar.com +sleeping Bags )
number of Bob's PR6 and PR5 links found:

152 - 9/28/2005
Unchanged from previous date
155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
150 - 10/18/2005
Unchanged from previous date
154 - 10/18/2005
157 - 10/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

note: this page is found using ( site:www.ski-france-ok.com +sleeping Bags )
Foxy's PR5 and two PR4s
0 - 4/20/2004
3 - 5/04/2004
Unchanged from previous date
2 - 6/17/2004
Unchanged from previous date
__________________
Bob and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on this forum 5/06/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.digitalpoint.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links from Signatures - 6/11/2004
4060 - highest links reported 6/12/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob replaced links in Signatures - 7/21/2004
Note:Foxy & Bob removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

1130 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1090 - 10/12/2005
1080 - 10/13/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1070 - 10/18/2005
1050 - 10/19/2005
1040 - 10/20/2005
Unchanged from previous date
1050 - 10/22/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

Caryl and Foxy added link Sleeping Bags to their sig files on the SEO Chat forum 5/11/2004
Results for - ( site:forums.seochat.com +sleeping bags )
Note:Foxy removed links in Signatures - 11/16/2004

81 - 8/31/2005
79 - 9/01/2005
Unchanged from previous date
91 - 9/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
156 - 9/08/2005
Unchanged from previous date
155 - 10/06/2005
Unchanged from previous date
__________________

*August 18, 2004 - (10) Project Supporters donated Links from 13 different IP addresses to page. Additional info will be added as it comes in.

Total links found by using site:www.domainname.tld Researched daily by Foxy

Daily Totals Report (click to see full report)

606 - 1/29/2005
457 - 1/29/20052/6/2005[/B](148 lost links from one IP) [/b]
251 - 2/12/2005
261 - 3/03/2005
273 - 3/18/2005
275 - 3/19/2005
508 - 4/09/2005
560 - 5/20/2005
627 - 6/14/2005
536 - 6/25/2005
584 - 7/11/2005
631 - 7/29/2005
15,785 - 8/19/2005
3891 - 10/20/2005
3904 - 10/26/2005
__________________

Dec 17, 2004 - digitalpoint's "Patient" Added link to 116 different urls
(Located on 3 different IPs within same class 3 IP address Address - 217.36.188.*)

Jan 20, 2005 - (moved all urls to dif server - now all 116 are on same IP + changed from Coldfusion to Java)

Number Indexed by Google

40 - 12/23/2004
48 - 12/24/2004
107 - 12/30/2004
115 - 1/2/2005
116 - 1/21/2005
108 - new urls & 70 old urls- 1/31/2005
__________________

PR/Backlink info

~ April 22 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
143 Backlinks reported
___________

~ March 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
113 Backlinks reported
___________

~ February 3 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
260 Backlinks reported
___________

~ January 1 Update ~
sleeping-bags.htm has PR5
268 Backlinks - see Table of Links reported
___________
~ December 16 Update ~ (only Backlinks updated in this update)
sleeping-bags.htm has PR6
155 Backlinks
(Details can be found for this and the following in Complete Report)
___________

"A nice tool that Shawn didn't write -" DISCUSSION
__________________
Note:Google API has page at #27