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Rand

Discussion in 'Directories' started by axemedia, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. axemedia

    axemedia Guest

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    #21
    Dude! I now realize I'm treading a fine line here with those who hang regularly in the Directories Forums. So I'm trying my best to avoid getting pinged with a bunch of reds :D


    edit ~ ouch! I get the reds anyways. lol
     
    axemedia, Jul 25, 2007 IP
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  2. britishguy

    britishguy Prominent Member

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    #22
    Thanks a classic surely worth some green :D

    That site never works when accessed from Asia so I never click on it, but having said that what is there worth fixing on the site anyway ;)

    You are doing a good job, as for me I never dish out red. although I get plenty all of course which I ignore, as I have right to express an opinion, just like you

    But very few of the controversy mongers have the ability to articulate their posts like you axemedia ;)
     
    britishguy, Jul 25, 2007 IP
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  3. smub

    smub Notable Member

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    #23
    hmm i was going to write a good long reply but than i said its not worth to reply to a so called professional who have yet not realized the integrity of Dmoz << I had to rub my eyes to make sure i was up when he said Dmoz have editorial integrity. (someone go read Dp's Dmoz section you will see all the incident thread) --> man that was hard ... for a second i thought it was me because i didn't sleep in the past 24 hours.


    Secondly,

    I have to ask did you got a phone call from google / yahoo (and other big SEs) or were you in a meeting with them ?? because i dont know how you came to realize the point saying these Search Engines does not count directory backlinks.


    and i have to say you are very clever about LINK BAITING

    if you do a case study (you sure will get backlinks) http://www.textlinkbrokers.com/blog/comments/396_0_1_0_C/

    hmm .. interesting...

    and if u write new articles talking BS (like this one) or you can call it a case study and crippled wisdom words .... you will get backlinks (well here is one at dp in this thread)



    Boy i should get some sleep before i write something which gets me an infarction
     
    smub, Jul 25, 2007 IP
  4. adnan

    adnan Peon

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    #24
    Heheheheh,

    I guess Rand fishing is in a bad mood on these directories lately.

    Were doing ok. Not bothered about it.
     
    adnan, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  5. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #25
    May be true. But, he gets tons of free traffic from directory owners everyday.
     
    maldives, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  6. EvcRo

    EvcRo Notable Member

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    #26
    soooo many experts around. why making so big fuss articles only to drive drama to them ? in my opinion everything is wrote in this "seo experts" blogposts is only to drive some traffic.

    as for they foundation of claims and numbers they have only their suppositions.
     
    EvcRo, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  7. smub

    smub Notable Member

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    #27
    exactly my point

    its another trick of link baiting ... i linked to the article also where Rand stated before if you write an article or do a case study <<

    you get backlinks + traffic
     
    smub, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  8. adnan

    adnan Peon

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    #28
    Hey,

    Something just came to mind.

    This rand guy is an seo, and makes a living off of people trying to boost their search engine rankings.

    Alot of people don't know that they can get exactly the same results if not better on their own instead of paying this rand guy big bucks.

    He could be sort of like 'protecting his well being' if u know what i'm saying.

    So many sites are on the first page of major search engines and the webmasters did it all on their own.

    Here's a little article I wrote on the topic

    http://www.directoryjunction.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166

    Not complete but every little bit helps.


    I mean think of it from his point of view? Wouldn't he like his prospective clients to pay him money for just everything a site owner can do on his own or submit their site to directories.

    Do a little research on which directories are on the first pages of search engines, and ask them if they got this rand fishings help.


    Another thing I noticed is that first he targets Aviva, then Kwikgoblin. I mean is that a coincidence or what? 2 directories from the same owner out of like thousands.

    If my little sixth sense is correct, that blog post has more of a political meaning then what he wrote.

    naughty naughty little rand fisghing

    On the other side of the coin, his PS tool for which he charges, sends automatic queries to google and yahoo which are clearly against their terms of service.

    I mean think of it, is there any real benefit to signing up as a premium member on that seomoz thing. I would be a little skeptical of it. I can't justify any value in it.

    You could participate in searchengingwatch, sitepoint, webmasterworld, dp, & all these forums, and get much more value and for free. :)
     
    adnan, Jul 26, 2007 IP
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  9. randfish

    randfish Peon

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    #29
    I'm not sure I can fully address all of the criticism here appropriately, but I'll try.

    Regarding the post as linkbait - I know this may come as a surprise, but both the whiteboard friday and the posts on calculating the value of directories generated far fewer links than to most of my blog posts. Usually when I write something on the blog, between 6-10 links come in from the blogosphere, various directories (big and small), media sources, etc. With the two on directories, there was only 7-8 links between the two of them (at least, according to our Indextools analytics).

    I thought it would be a topic that would be of interest to a lot of people, but surprisingly, except for a few impassioned directory owners, it seemed to fit more in the "casual reading" sector of the blog. It certainly didn't get any play on other major blogs or aggregators like Techmeme.

    Regarding the quality of the post - I'd still stand behind everything I said. Many directories are low quality, some are terrifically valuable and I think the criteria I outlined are excellent methods for determining the difference.

    As for the "broken website" issue - I believe you're referring to the inaccuracies from some of our tools. I've addressed this many times in the past here on DigitalPoint - it's an exceptionally complex problem, a very expensive one to solve and something that we work on every day. Just yesterday, our lead developer, Matt, put in the morning repairing and re-tooling some of the data fetch mechanisms to make them more accurate, but I don't think we'll ever get to perfect accuracy, hard as we try.
     
    randfish, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  10. an0n

    an0n Prominent Member

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    #30
    rand, what exactly defines a so called 'quality' directory in your eyes?

    what were you using when you were doing your searching/researching in terms of keywords, when you came to your conclusion?
     
    an0n, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  11. redgsr

    redgsr Well-Known Member

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    #31
    Took the words out of my mouth.... I would like to hear this response.
     
    redgsr, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  12. Freewebspace

    Freewebspace Notable Member

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    #32
    Same question here also!

    I think you will be never able to fix your broken issue as all the data's you depend upon are inaccurate!

    It is good depend upon your own data rather than to use some other's data to rank a website!

    Just see this post here

    then will know about the real meaning of directories!
     
    Freewebspace, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  13. smub

    smub Notable Member

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    #33
    are you certain that you only get 7 - 8 b/l ... because i am certain this matter was discussed on many forums and blogs.... i can hand count 10 on my hand :)


    linkbaiting it is and we all know it to be true whether you agree or not. Now when it comes to "quality"

    you have your own standards, which seems to be quiet low because you consider Dmoz a good site.


    if you really want to give something good to a community .... write down a list of crappy directories ... that would help so much :)
     
    smub, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  14. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #34
    He recently concluded kwikgoblin as another useless one to submit. Seems like he is the one to decide what is good and what is bad. :eek:
     
    maldives, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  15. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #35
    You should no use any directories for backlinks. Unless there is some other value in a listing, you should not submit, even for backlinks. Same goes with any sort of advertising. I have several sites of mine listed in a total of 1,200 web directories and only 8 of them provide me with any sort of real traffic.

    If I may do so, here are the few I highly recommend:
    www.kingbloom.com
    www.wowdirectory.com
    www.fullofsearch.com
    www.avivadirectory.com
    www.romow.com
    www.alivedirectory.com
    www.forplex.com

    There are more, but these are the ones which hit highest in my referrer stats. There was one more, but I forgot which one, will access my stats lateron to check.

    Mike
     
    Blogmaster, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  16. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #36
    Please don't let this keep you from speaking your mind. I will give you greens for the rest of my life. What you say needs to be said. :)
    Added: When you point out Aviva's list, it uses SEOMoz's PS tool to determine which directories are best, and according to the Rand's post, the tool is not really reliable then when it comes to finding out which sites are worth getting backlinks from. :)
     
    Blogmaster, Jul 26, 2007 IP
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  17. CReed

    CReed Prominent Member

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    #37
    Mike - how many visits from kingbloom are from the actual listing as opposed to their link checking bot?
     
    CReed, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  18. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

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    #38
    So is this a comeback by seomoz, of the "non-participation aka boycott maybe" by members of dp to use their pagestrength checker tool which sucks now even more than before? By the way took almost like 2 mins for your tool to spit out results for www.h-log.com , and its still saying wait for 30 days, for www.sbclansite.com :)
     
    paidhosting, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  19. axemedia

    axemedia Guest

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    #39
    Blogmaster, those directories might be sending your directory traffic because your traffic is mainly webmasters submitting to directories. They use other directories to find more directories to submit too. So those directories send you traffic.

    But the reality is, for most sites submitting to directories, they will not get any traffic, even from an Alive or an Aviva or even Dmoz. Who is using a directory to find a house painter in their local area? Nobody. Their using Google.

    The directory links help to get the rankings in Google for that little local business.

    Being a webmaster and seo submitting small sites in low and moderate keyword competition niches I've noticed over the past 4 to 6 month that directories, in general, are just not doing what they used to. And, at the same time that i see the link value going down for most directories, the prices have shot up significantly on most paid directories. Directory owners are basing their pricing on their home page Page Rank. But some of these PR5 or 6 directories are not passing any PR to internal pages, nor have been for past couple PR updates. Is that link worth $30? I think not.

    Navigating the waters to determine which directories are actually passing link weight ( really thats all that matters ) is getting harder and harder. The hundreds of free directories out there I don't care about. I'll still do the shotgun approach and submit to a bunch of them to be able to hit the few that actually add link value.

    I'm looking for a more specific, concise method to determine if a particular directory link is going to add any value. Not wishy washy vague descriptions of quality. I need to know "will this link pass juice and help my search rankings" and that is really all I need to know. I am more than willing to spend the money to be in a paid directory providing I am getting real value. And that value is Link Juice.

    Blah, blah, blah, on anyone that might say we should not be seeking links just for the purpose of influencing rankings. I'm not going to lie. That is my primary goal.

    In many small local markets, with little or no keyword competition, the SERPS are flooded with not very relevant "authority pages" and directory pages, yet a small business that offers that exact service in the local area has to do a fair bit of link building to overcome the "authority" sites producing not very relevant results. Otherwise the truly relevant, but small, young, and static site never gets beyond page 5 on Google based on on-page optimization alone.

    So, active link building is essential for that small local business to get to page 1 and get any real traffic. And directories are just part of the link building process. But that part has grown cloudy, of late.

    And many of the niche directories are so over priced its not funny. If that was the only link I needed then fine, but its not, I need more.
     
    axemedia, Jul 26, 2007 IP
  20. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #40
    You're right to some degree, Axe. I do however find romow for example when I check for a Google listing for keywords related to sites I submit. As I have said in my last blog post, I would rely on Google telling me which directories are worth submitting to.
    Romow for examples ranks for a lot of non directory terms and so does ewebpages. If your strategy is to use directories most heavily promoted on forums, you won't go far.
    Personally, I do not target webmaster keywords, most of Frog Engine's traffic comes from terms such as cool sites.
    Maybe a thread should be started on which the best terms are that web directories rank for. Unfortunately those threads go under with irrelevant comments hiding the fact that 99% of web directories on DP don't rank for anything worth mentioning. Which then again brings back the pagestrength number which is another tool to create artificial value.


    A couple of years ago, DP was the right place to go to for advice. Now it's a place to be sold on something that doesn't benefit anyone but the directory owners. If you need to buy links, buy blog posts or links in content. Or for a change take some pride in your product and think about the end user.

    I guess not a lot of members here have ever thought about that one. :)
     
    Blogmaster, Jul 26, 2007 IP