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From Great to poor in the last few hours...

Discussion in 'Google AdWords' started by chrisd, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. eepruls

    eepruls Peon

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    #161
    I made a bunch of changes and updates to make the landing pages more 'website-like'. But of course with every keyword being 'poor' and $12 a click, I knew I would never get re-evaluated and I just can't wait months hoping Google will return on its own. I just hate that you make the site better according to Google and then have to wait for them to come back. I need those sales now and not in a month. There should be a button in the Adwords admin panel that says 'made changes, please re-evaluate' and then within days they re-check your quality score.

    Anyways, the best thing to do is get a new domain name, transfer your files (with some updates and tweaks), and start a new campaign with new ad groups. At least you can get going again quickly.
     
    eepruls, Jul 2, 2007 IP
  2. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #162
    My point was that if you build your entire business promotion model based on short term plans that's about how long your business will last. Following the advice I made that comment at will get you nothing more than a few weeks/months of action before you're back asking what happened.

    It's just like the people who's advice is "get a new domain and start over". That's bad advice. If you don't know why your original site/domain received $10 bids what makes you think the new domain won't be in the same shape in a few weeks/months?
     
    GuyFromChicago, Jul 2, 2007 IP
  3. eepruls

    eepruls Peon

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    #163
    I completely agree that you shouldn't just keep getting new domain names each time your QS goes down. That's not a long term strategy, especially for niche sites. But many people with PPC landing pages find themselves in the position of losing all their traffic and sales. Most people genuinely want to improve their site so that Google likes them and reduces their minimum bids. Once you get slapped, the question is what to do so you don't get slapped again.

    I'm talking about the people who do research to find out why their QS is low and who work feverishly to add content, pages, and 'Google value' to their site to improve it. After a complete revamp, they'd have to wait weeks/months for Google to find out that they've done some work to improve their landing page QS. During that time they have no sales. If you can wait to be re-evaluated, great! But some people cannot and need to get back up and running ASAP.

    So I'm definitely not advocating making crappy websites and hopping from domain to domain. I'm saying that getting a different domain is a quick way to get up and running again so that you can improve your site and still be making sales.
     
    eepruls, Jul 2, 2007 IP
  4. LongHaul

    LongHaul Peon

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    #164
    With the way Google is so shadowy about its AdWords program, and seems to make huuuuge changes on a consistent basis that completely change the game and drive hordes of sites out of business, it seems that making any long-term plans with your Google relationship is foolish.

    But long-term plans are what makes for successful business. The odd man out here? Google. They're not the only game in town.

    If a store's clerks refuse to take the money you're waving under their nose, don't beat yourself up over it. Leave and go to a different store that provides a similar service. They'll take your money and, hopefully, work to keep taking it. if not, you move on again.

    You are paying Google for a service. Of course, go along with their regulations and suggestions, but always honestly step back and weigh what you're doing for the service they are providing you. Have you revamped the hell out of your site, hoping for a better QS, while sacrificing what your vision was, and throwing your beloved design out the window even though users seemed to like it fine? Are you getting much better, fast service from Google? No? Then why stay with them???
     
    LongHaul, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  5. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #165
    Simple, marketshare. They completely dominate the paid search landscape.

    Not to mention when it comes to PPC they have a better polatform than anyone else.
     
    GuyFromChicago, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  6. chrisd

    chrisd Well-Known Member

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    #166
    It might be bad advise but short term it works.

    You assume your new domain will also be slapped and have the next one ready in advance.

    I posted a few of Google's responses here. It's impossible to have an "adult conversation" with then. They will not tell you a thing and do not even admit to the "goggle slap" and that after paying then thousands of dollars. That alone shows this is not a "normal" business.

    You need short term solutions to deal with that "child like" unpredictable behavior.

    I agree with you. This thread is pretty long, so I understand if you did not read it all. But a few posts back, I recommended people use other services then Google when possible. Maybe even boycott Google and pass this message to your family and friends. I've done so and was surprised by the number of people already aware of Google's rogue behavior.

    They is still unfortunately true and that explains their behavior.

    We might be at the early stage of the biggest monopoly ever, with Google's involment in the "Ad/Media space", communications, e-commerce, software, internet ...etc..

    This is not good, we need to favor Google's competition (Yahoo, MSN ...etc...) so it does not happen.

    Cheers,
    Chris
     
    chrisd, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  7. _vlada_

    _vlada_ Peon

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    #167
    Creating new web site with content from previous one, after keywords went from great to poor is way how I deal with adwords and making for living in last year-two.

    Many times I received message from them that would be great if I spend more on daily limit (raise my budget - and I read those mails like: your site rocks on our network, cpc is great and there is sooo many satisified visitors, so it is great for both sides to you, dear advertiser, and us if you spend more) and after day or two my campaigns being characterized like terrible.

    I do not have ads on my sites but I sell many things on them. There is no adsense arbitrage.

    Few days ago I set up new capaign, using ONLY keywords google harvested from it. 90% of keywords was great and 10% was ok. Then, after few hours I added one keyword. Minimum bid was 5$. With clicking "cancel" I knew that my site was puked.

    Time to setup new one. There are big sharks and if you want to eat in that sea you need your skin being camouflage able.
     
    _vlada_, Jul 8, 2007 IP
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  8. LongHaul

    LongHaul Peon

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    #168
    Perhaps it was inevitable that Google would go from reflecting what was on the web to trying to control it.


    If I want to pay AdWords a hundred dollars a day to advertise an ugly, ad-filled site, that's my business. Users will hate the site, I'll get no sales, and I won't have anymore money to spend on AdWords.

    But if my site is good and users are buying things through it, then Google can keep their irrelevant opinion of it to themselves; just accept my money and shut up.
     
    LongHaul, Jul 8, 2007 IP
    _vlada_ likes this.
  9. chrisd

    chrisd Well-Known Member

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    #169
    Thanks for sharing Vlada! I think this is pretty much the lesson I've learned.

    GREED is very difficult to resist even when it's detrimental to most.

    I agree 100% ;)
    This is very simply to understand. Especially for business people.
    In my opinion Google is looking to gain something by doing this... it simply can't be that incompetent.

    When you spend more per month with Google then your rep. earns you know she knows exactly what is going on and that it was done on purpose.

    ----------------------
    Vlada you seem to have a pragmatic approach to this. What do you think of this idea?

    1) Keep slapped domain as legit main domain name for organic search and peoples bookmarks. And maybe even one day Google will unslap.

    2) Use a robots.txt "blocking all indexing" on the clone domain to avoid duplicate content on main domain.

    Is it even worth wasting time doing that?


    Cheers,
    Chris
     
    chrisd, Jul 8, 2007 IP
  10. _vlada_

    _vlada_ Peon

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    #170
    1 - Keep it. There is no reason to abandon any domain. Any visit is good visit. Any cent you earn is great cent. Respect your work. I think google will never unslap site. And if you waiting for that, that mean you loose not battle but war. Even if google give green that means that you are ready to wait months while others making money.

    That is what they want to you do. To move your thoughts on other road. Do not be naive and work on seo like crazy. You wanted to sell something? OK. You created ad on adwords. You spend thousands monthly. Hey, your visitors are best critics. If your site sucks then you would not sell anything, right? If your site is ok, then you will earn and invest more.

    Why site that turn millions monthly turns millions monthly? Because they do not like competition. Because they are no 1. I am sure that as much you have more competitive site/keywords google will respect complains from big players. If I am in position to make million $ I would have army of web investigator that will search and destroy competition in root.

    Create new site. Learn on mistakes you made on previous one and move on.

    2 - Create new site. Newer as much is possible. Use database from old one but try to work on templates from scratch. Do not hack own site with anything :)

    What you think, how many hundreds of sites have same content from amazon datafeed? They are not penalized..
     
    _vlada_, Jul 9, 2007 IP
  11. CustardMite

    CustardMite Peon

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    #171
    Of course they want to control it - their position in the market depends on them delivering relevant, high-quality results.

    Their actions are designed to remove/penalise sites that they think are poor quality - it's inevitable that with an automated system, some good sites are likely to get hit.

    In this case, they seem to have decided that when somebody searches for a product, then a site that sells that product is likely to be more relevant than a site with a bunch of links on. Some affiliate sites are better than that, but many aren't. So, rightly or wrongly, they've decided to penalise sites that look like affiliate sites.

    I see where they are coming from - it annoys the heel out of me when I search for something and click on a link that purports to sell what I want, but I land up on some adverts which may or may not even be advertising what I want.

    I appreciate that some sites are better than that, but I see where Google are coming from - their long-term business depends more on returning good results than keeping some of their advertisers happy...
     
    CustardMite, Jul 9, 2007 IP
  12. chrisd

    chrisd Well-Known Member

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    #172
    Good thinking. Thanks Vlada. Love your "Donald Trump" competive style ;)

    That is indeed the offical word from Google. Taking this fussy/arbitrary approach also give Google many opportunities to expend their reach into new markets or simply corruption. Right now we are left guessing. It's hard to believe that bright minds of Stanford could not come up with a better process, when most could write one in a few minutes.

    But I'm pretty sure my theory "reach into new markets" will materialize within the next years. In fact Google is already testing it:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/21/b...tml?ex=1332129600&en=d2264bc7581e38eb&ei=5124

    The less entities involved in a business transaction the more profitable it is for the ones involved. Wal-mart is a perfect example of business "optimization".

    We currently have the follow cost centers:
    Adwords - Affiliate Seller - Web Store - Distribution - Product Creation & Transport.

    The selling & marketing layers are often very costly for most goods especially in % of the production cost in 3rd world countries. By following the same principal as the one they are testing in the NY Times article, Google reduces those layers, like:

    Web Store in partnership with Google (pay be action) - Distribution - Product Creation & Transport.

    and Google is now just a few steps from:
    Google Order System (Google Shopping Cart + Google Checkout) -Distribution - Product Creation & Transport.

    and maybe even in 10 years (ala Wal-Mart v2.0):
    Google Order System with "Lean Distribution" - Creator of the Product (in China ?)

    Lets look at an example:
    Google search "Sharp AQUOS"

    Right now you have the following cost centers, with estimated % of total cost:
    Adwords (3%) - Amazon Affialite (3%) - Amazon (20%) - Sharp Distributor Network(40%)- Factory in China(24%)

    It would be a lot more profitable for Google to have the following:
    Sharp in partnership with Google (pay be action) - Factory in China

    Instead of the 3% Google is currently making on that TV purchase, it could make 26%.

    and in 10 years:
    Google Order System with "Lean Distribution" (ala Wal-Mart v2.0) - Factory in China

    Giving Google a margin in the 50% range?

    If I was a financier for Google that is direction I would recommend the company goes. The 2 mains problems would be:
    - Public acceptance
    - Legal anti-competiive issues (Monopolistic type behaviors).

    I don't know if you remember when Microsoft was "under the gun" for monopolistic behaviors, how it also used the "improving the user experience" as the main defense to it's business practices. Most technical people knew then, that Microsoft was lying when it said that IE could not be separated from the operating system. Just like today Google might be saying "user experience" to "weed out" what is in its way...

    Cheers,
    Chris
     
    chrisd, Jul 10, 2007 IP
  13. morkassmith

    morkassmith Peon

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    #173
    Kreeactive As I said, I will take any action to Google because I'm not fooling anyone, I have not done anything illegal or against TOS and I have no reason to feel guilty or no change.
     
    morkassmith, Oct 22, 2010 IP
  14. illank86

    illank86 Member

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    #174
    same problem..... now, im trying to move.... i mean using facebook as my secondary weapon since Big G come with stranger now....
     
    illank86, Oct 23, 2010 IP
  15. itsme

    itsme Well-Known Member

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    #175
    My account was suspended a couple of weeks ago for "landing page issues". No other details given (I've exchanged 6 emails with a rep so far and I'm still on their backs for details... getting nowhere)

    The only active campaign in my account is about 3 years old, unchanged from day 1. It advertises an OFFLINE business whose website is "PRODUCT.COM" and has NO advertising on it... just product info and contact info. 100% relevant.

    Quality score has always been 8+, AVG position 1.6, CTR 12% for the last 3 years.

    BANNED! Crazy. There is no rhyme or reason.

    I'm not starting to think Google sucks, I've known it for years (they've gotten even sneakier and more evil since their IPO in 2004) but unfortunately they've got too much momentum to be hurt by their poor customer/partner service.

    Oh well, life goes on, find another ad network.
     
    itsme, Oct 23, 2010 IP