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Jesus praying for Muslims in the Bible!

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Ahmad_Malik, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. tau

    tau Peon

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    #161
    Ehhh... Islam did not exist at the time Jesus was promoting his new views, and Islam IS a deviation off the base religion.
    Forget that crap written several centuries AFTER Jesus death - those are fairy tales created to manipulate people's mind, man...

    From what I know:
    Latin Arabic
    God = Alluh
    Jesus = Muhhamed
    Bible = Quran

    Same things in different languages.
    Amen.
     
    tau, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  2. GMROCKS

    GMROCKS Active Member

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    #162
    ONCE AGAIN, another Bible verse taken out of context
    Taken from the NIV bible


    He was first talking about the disciples of Jesus, the believers in Jesus Christ and teachers of God's word. then he used something known as a PRONOUN ( "their" to be precise, for those of you who haven't taken language arts) so he was referring to the disciple's words, not the words of any random person that comes up and writes a book and calls himself the last prophet.

    This thread has been owned by GM.

    Thank You.
     
    GMROCKS, Jul 6, 2007 IP
    debunked likes this.
  3. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #163
    That's the greatest misconception about Islam. Islam was the religion of every Prophet and Muhammad pbuh is the last one as he has been prophecised by scriptures of all major religions. All Prophets taught "ONE GOD"! Jesus pbuh never said the word "Christianity" or even "Trinity". The Quran is the Last, Final and only preserved Scripture of God Almighty.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  4. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #164
    That Allah in Arabic is the real name of God and translators have changed it.
    And "The Lord" is the English translation of the Arabic word of "Allah".

    This is the authenticity of this footnote. It explains how the word has changed over time.
    But which straws can you grasp on when I quote the Gospel of Barnabos? Perhaps some Muslim invented a time machine and wrote it down back then, eh?

    And what about when the translators translate the meaning of the name Muhammad pbuh in the Song of Solomon?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  5. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #165
    I have read the context. Thank you.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 6, 2007 IP
  6. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #166
    Ahmad long before any Muslims or Mohammed ever appeared on the earth the name of God was made known and it was formed from the Hebrew consonants 'YHWH' (they didn't have vowels). Today this is most often pronounced as 'Yahweh' or 'Jehovah'; that is fact, supported by Jewish history and theology.

    You are a great fan of the Psalms, constantly quoting Psalm 91, so I'm sure that you will accept what another Psalm has to say:-
    At Exodus, God spoke to Moses to encourage him to speak to the nation of Israel, he encouraged him by reminding Moses of His Name:-
    'Lord', 'God' and 'God Almighty' or titles, much as you Ahmad might be called 'Sir', but a name is something quite individual to the person, like Ahmad, and God's individual name is Jehovah.

    'Elohim' is a title also, it is used of angels for example as in Psalm 8:5 and it is used of the false gods of Egypt at Exodus 20:23; if it where a title specific to Almighty God do you think that he would share it with the false gods whom He sent Moses and Aaron to discredit?
     
    grandad, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  7. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #167
    I don't disagree with you. YHWH is in Hebrew, "The God" in English and "Allah" in Arabic. The Arabic Bible has the word "Allah" in it. This is why Allah says in the Quran:

    "Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  8. Tikoutikou

    Tikoutikou Well-Known Member

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    #168
    It is not God in English bible but LORD because they could not find a good translation.
     
    Tikoutikou, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  9. anions

    anions Notable Member

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    #169
    Jesus had foresight...
     
    anions, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  10. tau

    tau Peon

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    #170
    I feel like you smoked something as I cannot understand your sentences - they just dont make any sense... nor like you can read and comprehend the idea behind the writings - seems like you are a speaking puppet with a spring inside of you...

    I was not talking about christianity - it appeared also long time after Christ, as well as the rest of the contemporary religions except buddhism, hindu and similar.
     
    tau, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  11. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #171
    YHWH is not "The God" Ahmad, it is the personal name of God as I have already shown you.
    'God' or 'The God' is a title, same as 'Man' or 'The Man'.
    YHWH is not a title it is God's personal name and it is translated as 'Yahweh' in Hebrew and 'Jehovah' in English.
     
    grandad, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  12. Realm

    Realm Well-Known Member

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    #172
    source: http://www.altway.freeuk.com/Answers/362-Meaning.htm
     
    Realm, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  13. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #173
    There is no evidence for that, Muhammed is not mentioned once in the bible and Judaism was the religion of almost all of the bible prophets.

    The trinity is of course unscriptural and dishonours God who is Almighty, as the Jews stated, "Jehovah our God is one". Whilst Jesus never mentioned the term 'Christianity', the term is bible based, being recorded at Acts 11:5, 26:-
     
    grandad, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  14. kamchatka

    kamchatka Guest

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    #174
    Ahmad which quotation in Hindu Scriptures references Muhammad. The Vedas, puranas or upansihads.

    Those scriptures were written more than 3000 years ago, and by that time standard, Islam is recent.

    Can you show me the exact verse and the scripture.
     
    kamchatka, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  15. kamchatka

    kamchatka Guest

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    #175
    Oh so you mean this particular line from "Atharva Veda", first of all , this veda is sometimes not accepted as a veda, and was written after the three vedas, but still the timing is ancient than that of Muhammad.

    This line "Assya illale mitra baruna raja" mentioned on that website of yours, is completely misspelled, and , it doesnot seem the writer is talking to a higher god,

    He is talking about the King of the Wind and sand, and refers to him as a friend.

    Baruna / Varuna is sanskrit for wind
    mitra is sansrit for friend
    raj/raja is sansrit for sand.

    Also the Atharva veda, is more about philosophy, medicines, science and occult and not religion, where on earth, do you guys get this materials by the way.

    Next time, atleast have the decency to put the entire verse online, you only put a part of the verse, and still it doesnt say, what you want it to say.

    More over, I have the translations of the entire group of verse, about Varuna, in Atharva Veda,

    Here it is

    1. The great guardian among these (gods) sees as if from anear. He that thinketh he is moving stealthily--all this the gods know.
    2. If a man stands, walks, or sneaks about, if he goes slinking away, if he goes into his hiding-place; if two persons sit together and scheme, king Varuna is there as a third, and knows it.
    3. Both this earth here belongs to king Varuna, and also yonder broad sky whose boundaries are far away. Moreover these two oceans are the loins of Varuna; yea, he is hidden in this small (drop of) water.
    4. He that should flee beyond the heaven far away would not be free from king Varuna. His spies come hither (to the earth) from heaven, with a thousand eyes do they watch over the earth.
    5. King Varuna sees through all that is between heaven and earth, and all that is beyond. He has counted the winkings of men's eyes. As a (winning) gamester puts down his dice, thus does he establish these (laws).
    6. May all thy fateful toils which, seven by seven, threefold, lie spread out, ensnare him that speaks falsehood: him that speaks the truth they shall let go!
    7. With a hundred snares, O Varuna, surround him, let the liar not go free from thee, O thou that observest men! The rogue shall sit, his belly hanging loose, like a cask without hoops, bursting all about!
    8. With (the snare of) Varuna which is fastened lengthwise, and that which (is fastened) broadwise, with the indigenous and the foreign, with the divine and the human,--
    9. With all these snares do I fetter thee, O N. N., descended from N. N., the son of the woman N. N.: all these do I design for thee.

    Some sources

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atharvaveda

    I wont even lie to go into the lame way the comparison was done on that website, just mentioning half scriptures, twisted , and mispelled doesnot mean comparison. When comparison is done between a set of item, the salient characteristics of each item is taken into account and the comparison is done on those points.
     
    kamchatka, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  16. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #176
    Prophet Muhammad pbuh is mentioned BY NAME in the Song of Solomon 5:15! But your translators translate his name's meaning!
    "Cheeko mame tah kim vechulo Mohammadim"--meaning: "His speech is most sweet, and he is altogether desirable." ('Mohammad' means 'desirable')
    If you read the complete song, a loved one is described. And in the last verse, when Solomon names his loved one as "He is Muhammad, this is my beloved". Your translators translate it as, "He is desirable, this is my beloved"

    And not to forget the Gospel of Barnabas.
    It depends upon the language. In the Hndu Scriptures, the Kaabah is mentioned as something like Ilahispath. Which means Allah's house. Again, Ilah because its in Sanskrit.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  17. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #177
    Thats not the only one. Look here. It shows you original manuscripts of Sanskrit so that you can read easily.
    And what else did you expect?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  18. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #178
    Something that you don't realize is that there are not many Gods who are sending different scriptures for different religions. There is only ONE God who sent these scriptures and that is why you find the prophecy of Muhammad (the Last Messenger) in almost every Scripture.

     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jul 7, 2007 IP
  19. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #179
    I can't speak for other holy books but I can tell you for sure Ahmad that nowhere in the bible canon is the name 'Muhammad' or 'Allah' mentioned!

    Now you are going into the realms of fantasy Ahmad!
    The Song of Solomon is a 'story' about the love of a Shulamite girl for her shepherd boy and how she resists the advances of King Solomon in favour of being loyal to her shepherd boy. The verses you speak of contain her expressions of love for him:-
    Chapter 1:15 - 2:2 gives an account of the actual face-to-face meeting between the Shulamite girl and her shepherd boy in the camp of King David. Are you somehow suggesting that Muhammad miraculously had a previous life as a shepherd boy and managed to keep this liaison with the Shulamite girl?

    Your reasoning is as spurious as trying to suggest that V13, where she talks about his lips being like "lilies", is prophetic of every woman on earth called Lily, it is simply ridiculous, a clutching desperately at something that is not there in an effort to prove the unprovable!
    This has nothing whatsoever to do with Muhammad or Allah, it is a lesson in loyal love, not just between this shepherd boy and a Shulamite girl, but prophetically of the spiritual loyalty between Christ Jesus and his Spiritual Bride, (spoken of in the Book of Revelation).
    It typifies for all who would call themselves 'Christian', the keeping of themselves spiritually clean and faithful to God.
     
    grandad, Jul 8, 2007 IP
  20. kamchatka

    kamchatka Guest

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    #180
    Strange, I read all the vedas , and I didnot find any word that means "allah" or "muhammad", and you know what ails you, you take everybody at face value, especially somebody of your religion and do not question motives or beliefs.

    And there are no "muhammad" or "allah" in hindu scriptures, since those are arabic words, a language far newer than sanskrit and couldnot possibly be included in the scripture, read my previous post carefully and try to open your eyes.

    I searched for the Acharya, and he seems to feature only on Islamic websites, a man of his credentials and high learning, should also be on some more websites that are decidedly neutral or give us different views too.

    Also, I found something about the acharya. On a site which seems to be a good Islamic forums, he says

    "With the exception of Buddhism and Jainism, all religious literature contain the name of Allah and Mohammad or Ahmad (P*). These names are very clear in the Vedas. The word 'Ala' occurs in chapter 1 of the Rig Veda, which is the first of the four. Later on, this word takes the name of Allah. Similarly, 'Moha-mmad' and Ah-mad' occur for Mohammad and Ahmad (P*) respectively. The word 'Kurdha-noo' has been used in the Rig Veda for the Holy Quran."

    Now go and search the rigveda in sanskrit (you will find it online). Whatever the learned acharya is saying, exisits nowhere. He says "Moha-mmad" occurs in the text, do you know

    moha means attraction, attachment in sanskrit
    madd means, intoxication, alcohol, spirit

    Ah-mad that is totally paraphrased, it is spelled aham mad, which is

    aham in sanskrit means pride, ego, egotistic
    mad again means, intoxication, alcohol, spirit

    Those verses were talking about the way a human has moha or attraction to the worldly things and is drunk (hence the madh) with desire or a human is sometimes full of aham or ego and is drunk or intoxicated with the feelings of ego and pride.

    The complete RigVeda in sanskrit can be found here,

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rvsan/rvi01.htm
     
    kamchatka, Jul 8, 2007 IP