I'm wondering how we deal with members here who we believe have bad business practices. I'm sure that every member here would want to know who amongst them might not be professional and potentially dishonest.
Yes we all would like to know that, but thats why this forum comes with a rating system and people can leave comments about people on there profiles.If you believe they have bad business practices someone else might not..? Its all a matter of opinion thats why im glad that there are so many seo, coders, writers designers and so on, on this forum to choose from.
The rating system only works with jobs require (1) a link to a job posted here (only part of it was) and (2) only allow for a very short description. Lastly, it's not all a matter of opinion and sometimes the facts speak for themselves, e.g. you paid for a good that was never sent, etc.
I think the best way is to start a new programmer off with a simple project as a "test." You could lose $50 or so on someone, but that would be better than handing over a $20k job to someone new. For website sales, well, hopefully luck is on your side and you've really searched these forums and done other due diligence. You can only trust the iTrader to an extent. Sometimes if you leave someone negative rep, they'll just place the blame on you to get revenge. As far as dealing with bad members, I've seen a few threads in General Chat flaming people. A good way for both parties to get banned.
How do you know if someone has bad business practices without doing business with them? There is a reason that itrader requirese that you give proof that you have done business with an individual before giving them a rating. I know I personally wouldn't like to get negative feedback from someone I've never done business with. The itrader system works fine in my opinion.
When you are about to begin a business transaction with a new person always start things off slowly. Set milestones so that you have a definite track of how much work they are doing. iTrader rep is good and the more is always the better. If you get ripped off you may be able to get a reversal of charges if you use Paypal. Lastly you can always tell your story here on DP to warn others about dealing with this member. Hope this helps!
iTrader system does not work fine. Most surfers, browsers and observers don't know what it is or how to use it, and most people don't care. iTrader rating can never take the place of checking the person or the company out online, seeing that they have other interests, a long standing Pay Pal account, A large portfolio of domains, or at least that the ones they are selling are not 3 days old, and that the domains registration matches the company or the person directly. Typing their user name in Google and seeing if they have screwed someone else over in another forum. People forget that their user name is in Google, and every post, comment, and thread with that name in it, or on it, is available, and if you have 5 minutes you can trace a user name all the way down to a phone number. ITs too simple. I have had many transactions from this forum and no one has yet to put any iTrader rating on my account and I don't care. (and no negative ones either) I certainly am not going to say to someone after they just wired me $500, $5k or what ever the amount, "Hey can you go back to the forum and give me a good rep?" iTrader is a nice tool , but if you rely on that, when you have access to the entire www, you deserve to get scammed. JMO
There are various services posted in the buy, sell, trade forum that will never show up in the itrader. Some I can think of right off the top of my head are people selling services through their web site. A good example of this recently was some guy trying to sell dedicated servers for $180/yr (the machines themselves cost $150/month from where he was getting them from). Other services itrader is fine since the person is not ordering from some web site but rather just a few pm's job done then rating posted.
MTBiker hit the nail on the head. Start off with small deposit and take it from there. The problem occurs when you get to the first small milestone and it is manifestly clear that delivery isn't happening and the excuses are absolutely absurd. Even if it's just $50 or $100, it's the kind of business practice that I would think this community would want to know about. I am in favor of making every effort to work things out reasonably and rationally. But there are some people are pathological and will never take responsibility for their actions and rationalize their bad behavior.
Give them a small advance payment if they don't do the job right either leave the money with them and report them or just get your money back.
Its no different than the rest of the world. Most of the problem is everyones thing with anonymity. It's actually kind of ridiculous to do business with someone in and amount over $500 and never talk to them on the phone, but, there are some that don't like to actually talk to people, so how can you really make a well informed decision of anyone based on a few web pages that any 12 year old can build and an email address?
I don't think anyone is saying that the itrader is the end-all-be-all... but it serves its purpose. I'm not going to rely on 2 positive itrader comments on a $5,000 purchase. However, I probably would rely on it if it is only a $10.00 purchase. If you are working with big money you are dumb to go off any internet logs regardless of where you get them or what quantity you have. People can use multiple usernames, different IP addresses, and essentially anyone who has done a large scam and going after another is probably posing as someone who is totally different. Chances are there won't be much feedback, and any decent scammer wouldn't be traced back to an older account. Regardless, you should protect yourself legally using lawyers and contracts when working with larger amounts of money. And to be honest, I would recommend anyone about to make a big purchase to go with someone in your own country if you want any security legally. As far as small purchases like 95%+ of the sales that come from this forum... itrader works.
We are talking about small purchases made between members here and where things like legal agreements and escrow simply don't remedy. If someone takes your money here for $50 - $100 and you've got a serious issue with the way it was handled, the question is how do you go about letting others know? The dilemma here is that iTrader just isn't enough because, as I mentioned, it gives you just a few words to write. It also requires a thread. It would seem that sometimes having a thread to discuss the transaction would warn the community that a larger problem may exist and can serve the purpose of forcing a settlement between reasonable people (or exposing one for not being reasonable.)
OK - so here is the issue. I have been extremely kind to a member who is doing business here regularly and ignoring my emails. This member has a very nicely designed web site. Looks great. Too bad it's clear you are not getting the services used to build his site and it's all a front. he also can't follow simple directions but expects you to pay for his clear mistakes and also renegotiate a deal afterwards. I'm sure his partners will be thrilled to read about this. I respect people hustling to try to make money but when you're wrong, just own up to your mistakes. I gave a small deposit but it's not the point. Within our group of professionals, all of us would want to know and share who amongst us cannot be trusted. Without trust we have nothing.
iTrader isn't perfect, but it gives you an idea. If I'm dealing with someone and they have hundreds of positives, and one or two negatives, then I'll probably assume that the negatives were either genuine mistakes, or just nasty buyers / sellers. If they have lots of negatives, then that could be worrying, and I'd dig deeper to see what had happened. By itself, it isn't worth much, but it is helpful, and I wish more people would leave feedback, both ways. If people aren't reporting things going wrong, then how can any future customers know there could be a problem?
This person only has a handful of iTraders and is trying to build up reputation here. The design site he has with his partners is extremely well designed and appealing. I'm wondering if he's trying to do jobs on the side and keep them secret from his partners... His latest offer to me was to give "personal attention" to the work he was hired to do. I gave him a harsh dose of reality. You don't take money, outsource work, and then expect the client to pay if it is bad and doesn't pay attention to directions. He refuses to return the deposit and is again avoiding emails. Essentially he wants yet another chance but has already given me "honest" fears it will take more money to do it properly. You believe this? I've given him the weekend to think over his actions and let him know that I've been more than patient before I do the entire DigitalPoint community a favor.
Even if you research a person as much as possible it's always a risk you have to take, but yeah for large amounts paying bit by bit or via escrow would be safer, or at least seem to be. I am new and use iTrader as an indication so it's not that useless, but my first transaction I think I may have been ripped off *laughs* was small amount anyway!
OK - It's now a dispute at paypal since it's within 45 days (still within 30 actually.) He had his chance and ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away. I've given him until tomorrow before I warn the community here. He's since received another positive itrader - which are all BS. All you have to do here is sell someone's stuff on the cheap and there will be plenty of people iTradering up a storm in appreciation... He's still logging in and ignoring me...