Apologies for the non-live links but this forum doesn't allow live links from new members I'm worried about the amount of hype going around regarding Firefox. Firstly, the UI is still buggy even in 1.0PR: http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=6077 Secondly people are talking about its security as if the browser is invulnerable. Its heavily inbuilt XPCOM technology is much like Microsoft's ActiveX (it has a similar local-zone sandbox that hackers eventually cracked in IE). Its interface was comprehensibly spoofable before a few recent band-aids: http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=5107 Worse for web devs like me, members of the Opera and Mozilla community are wreaking havoc with the new CSS3 standard, using the W3C in a bid to make it infeasible for MS to support the latest "web-standards": http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=5089 I'm sick and tired of the organised Mozilla Evangelism campaign spreading rubbish about IE in order to promote their browser. Firefox is buggy, slow and subject to all kinds of 3rd-party addons that make it more buggy and even slower. Yes, IE has addons too, but luckily most IE users prefer to use the internet than use their browser. It's a tool not a toy and I'm happy Microsoft keep it that way.
Well, that's great... Firefox works great for me, and for most other web developers... I (try) to produce sites that are cross browser compatable - No matter what what browers my site visitors are using. Most GOOD web developers will be doing the same. I haven't played with CSS3 yet - so I can't comment on that. But frankly... Firefox is a better browser. The plugins, tabbed browsing and better password remembering is great for me and has saved me a LOT of time. I have no doubt that there are security flaws n FireFox, just like there are in ie - but for the time being, there is nothing better around. So I'll stick with FireFox. But thanks for the warning.
Hi well it has to be Firefox for us here.. we use internet Exp only to view design work off line, and never to search the web. PLus All the designer tools that comes with it Firefox has to be up there. Not for getting the news a few days ago about Firefox. Al
Microsoft themselves admitted that they were not going to make any real improvements to IE until the next OS (LONGWAITFORMOREBUGS) is released and it will be browserless search at that time. Just put your key words in and WE give you the sites we choose is the future. I don't know that many want a search engine to decide for them what sites they visit. But 95% of the users will go along with it, just like they go along with whatever Uncle Bill gives them. GO APPLE, GO LINUX, GO OPEN SOURCE
I tnd to agree, although if the Firefoxers want to preach "our god is better than your god" it doesn't bother me... they can do it all day if they wish. And if they want to believe it's bug free and secure, have a great day. The last time I pointed out the number of scurity issues this year alone with Mozilla and Firefox, the reply was, "yes but with open sourc they get patched faster" which rather misses the point. Many of the most destructive viruses in the past year or so spread through vulnerabilities in Windows or Outlook or Internet Explorer for which patches already existed before the spread of the virus but the viruses spread anyway because people had not bothered to apply the patches. As for slow and buggy, that has also been my experience, although others running it on different systems clearly have a different experience. As for "GO APPLE, GO LINUX, GO OPEN SOURCE", none of them are going to make the Super Bowl, anthonycea... and they don't even have cute cheerleaders. GO COWBOYS!
Minstrel, what is a guy from Canada doing rooting for the Cowboys? Next, how much M$ stock are you holding, if I would have bought in 1986 I would stand up for them also. But I would be standing on my own island somewhere. Since I do not own any M$ stock, I will cut them when they deserve it, now they do deserve to be cut. They have more security bugs than Florida has bugs, how do you explain them not updating IE unless folks fork out $99.00 to upgrade all old OS to "XP Future Bug Edition"? Lets face it Minstrel, folks are going to move to Linux, Apple and other open source computing platforms, even Google OS. Microsoft is simply a money machine that has had it too good, too long, Uncle Bill is falling all over himself at this time. So to say that no one will play in the Super Bowl with him really does not make sense since so many are coming after him right now. I do not want to see M$ fail, they simply need to do a lot better if they expect folks to stick with them through thick and thin. Lately it has been real thin I am going to run other systems and OS independent of M$ PERIOD.
How could you not like those Tom Landry teams? It's about time they had another one... oh, and the Cowgirls None, unless Office, XP, etc., counts as MS stock... I've been hearing this for about 10 years, it seems, but look at your web stats... Mine look like this -- not much change: Windows 94.4 % Macintosh 2.6 % Unknown 2.6 % Linux 0.2 % MS Internet Explorer 89.8 % Netscape 3.9 % Unknown 2 % FireFox 1.8 % Mozilla 0.9 % Safari 0.8 % Opera 0.2 % Konqueror < 0.1 % So far, if I did own stock in Microsoft, I would not be worried... I was simply reacting to the "Go Team Go" aspect of your previous post -- not making a serious comment about no one being able to play with Microsoft. Some have done so quite successfully (e.g., Quicken vs. Money, some graphics products, numerous games, <insert your own favorite non-MS product here>).
Yes Minstrel, it is hard to argue with current statistics, but I for one will not buy another M$ box, they have to show me a hell of a lot more than they have recently. Putting out a defective product, then using automatic updates to correct it is not the model I want to base my future computing on. Yes, I remember when they first put out XP, I bought one of the first units, nothing worked with it, you had to go find some drivers to get your stuff to work, nor would a lot of the software I owned work with it. Don't you think folks are getting tired of this churn and burn business model?
I don't know about "defective" -- if you want to use that word, though, what software have you bought or obtained from open source that is NOT "defective" and requires patching? Especially in an OS... Look at the history for Mozilla and Firefox -- numerous patches. Look at the history for Linux -- numerous patches. The only real difference is that a lot fewer people need those patches and, of those who do, a greater percentage of them actually apply the patches. That's because the people who are Linux or alternate browsers are more likely to be techies and in the case of Linux its lower user-friendliness means you need to know a lot about the OS before using it... As for XP, I installed it as an upgrade and it worked first time -- not a single issue. I had downloaded one or two driver updates for third-party software before installing it but that's hardly a "defect" -- Windows 98 (the previous OS on that system) was a FAT based OS, not an NT based OS, so there were bound to be one or two things that needed new drivers. Is Linux any different in that respect? or even as easy to find updated drivers for?
This type of subject always tends to turn into a boiling pot. Microsoft sells their software, which is a tad expensive. However, they are a business, and if they see that they can make more money by raising the price, they will. As for defectiveness, I don't feel that their products are terribly flawed. Unless they run a wide-spread beta release like other pieces of software (like vBulletin), they won't be able to catch all the bugs with their team. I for one am glad for the Internet, before it's use was wide-spread the availability of patches simply wasn't available the way it is now. Microsoft puts out decent products, even if they are expensive. Microsoft is an easy company to take pot-shots at because they have a lot of money and power to toss around, and everyone uses their products. It is virtually impossible to live in the United States (or even other places around the world) and not have some piece of your life impacted.
Yes but why should I be forced to upgrade? M$ leaves its customers in grave danger of losing ALL of their hard work if they do not upgrade because of a security defect in the IE browser. Pay us and you will be safe, sounds like the same tactic the mafia uses, it is safety insurance. Minstrel, how about I send my hacker friends after your servers if you don't send me a check today? See how silly this is getting? You make many good points, but in some cases I think you are failing to see those that others make.
You're not being forced to upgrade, you can still use MS-DOS on a classic IBM if you wish. It has been a common thread with Microsoft to say that you should upgrade your software, buy new versions of Microsoft Word to take advantage of new updates. Logically, they shouldn't be updating old software. I don't demand an update for an old Windows 3.1-OS/2 machine that I have here. It won't happen because those pieces of software are simply old. Microsoft isn't doing anything different then they always have.
You mean those guys weren't from you? Hmmm... I think David Coursey is trying to make a similar point here. My comment, posted elsewhere, was this:
Typically for Operating Systems, Microsoft says "5 Years" though I understand they pushed it back for Windows 98, as it is still in wide-spread use, especially in 3rd world countries. When Apple dropped support for the Newton, the user-community took over, and support for the Newton still remains strong, just not officially by Apple. I don't think that Microsoft must be forced to continually update all their old, outdated software. Progress and time will march on, and it is only natural for Microsoft to discontinue supporting old products.
Minstrel, what folks do not realize is that if it were not for a defective OS that invites attacks via Active X, IE browser bugs and a lot of other flaws, then folks would NOT HAVE infected machines clogging up the internet. You can say the same for spyware, if the tech companies did not want to data mine, we would not have all the spyware laws to outlaw the practice coming down the pike. Next, if M$ did not put out such a hacker inviting drive by attack OS we would not have all the spyware and viruses we have. Minstrel, the buck stops at Bill Gates desk, he is taking advantage of all computer users, until M$ gets serious about correcting the flaws that cause all of the above problems, folks will continue to attack them.
Honestly, anthony, I think that saying "MS invites virus attacks by having 'buggy' software" is the same as saying "women invite sexual assault by wearing attractive clothing". I don't think the buck stops at Bill Gates desk: I think it stops at the desk of the kiddie-coders creating the viruses and your desk and mine if we do not have adequate antivirus, antispyware, and firewall software.
Many experts including Shawn would disagree with that Minstrel. Why should I or anyone else surfing the net be attacked or have my computer turned into a zombie for the Russian Mafia just by clicking on a link? We can not look at a photo any longer with IE unless we buy an upgrade since Mr. Gates decides that all OS other than XP are not worthy of a good browser? Steve Balmer should be ashamed of himself! You can see a pattern here, I hope the government files suit, in addition to that consumers should file a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for this security defect. They sure do deserve it, I am sure that you have not heard the end of this story Minstrel.
Well the JEPG flaw is not covered in that thread Minstrel, that is what convinced me to finally download SP2. Many folks are still holding off, but when I found out that was the only way to stop the JEPG flaw, I decided I had enough and downloaded SP2. You may want to add that to the top of that thread as it is the most important thing for windows users at this time.
There are other threads there about SP2 at http://www.bandofgonzos.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=50. I'm really not trying to minimize the danger, Anthony... you make some good points here. But the problem won't be solved by class action suits, switching operating systems, etc. Like the streets in many urban or high density population centers, the internet is inherently a dangerous place. Anyone who doesn't understand that and take appropriate precautions is going to get burned sooner or later, and that includes MAC users and Linux users aho don't even own a copy of Internet Explorer.