Debate against Ahmad Malik

Well if that where the case then I suppose many of the stories in the Quran would fall under this logical fallacy, now wouldn't they? I mean afterall there are many of the same stories.

Please point out specific passages and the scientific fallacies that coincide with them.

 

Did you move from the US to Canada?

 

LOL. It is not very much that you know, is it? Who has told you these stories?

Christianity was never part of Iranian religion, if you want to go back to glory days of Persia and it's religion, then you should become Zoroastrian. The prophet Zoroaster was about 1200 BC. It is true that Christian mythology and Jesus is based on Persian mythology but that is because cult of Mithra became popular in Roman empire which later formed the base of Christianity.
It was Cyrus that freed the Jews and had the charter about the human rights but he lived in about 570 BC and has nothing to do with Christianity.

You have the same love and hate to your new country as many other foreigners. You denounce everything about your origin and hope that your new country will accept and love you and you will hate it because it rejects you since many bigots will never accept you as an American which push you to try to take pride in your original country's old history.

Just relax and don't give shit about how bigots think or act. There are many good Americans who will accept you for who you are without demanding that you denounce everything about your origin.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Cyrus rued the achemand persian Empire, Iran had christian rulers during the Sassanid Empire. My favourite empire is the parthian empire that defeated 3 roman emperors that tried to copy alexander.

I will never see America as a christian nation, a true christian nation is Armenia and Iran.

I am not an American I live in Europe and I see my nation as a host nation. I belive that you are a muslims that get angry when people live islam.

Jesus was real, and yes Zoroaster predicted him, being born from a virgin mother in Betlehem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi

 

Jesus was myth based on Persian God, Mithra. Why should I get angry when people live Islam? In my opinion, anyone who believes in religion be it Islam or Christianity is a moron but as long as we have freedom of religion, they have the right to practice their religion.

The original story in Hebrew is not about a virgin mother, it is about a young girl but since the person who translated the text was translating from Greek and the word for young girl and virgin is the same, the story about virgin mother of Jesus started in order to prove that Jesus is the Messiah that Jews were waiting for.

There is no historical proof of Jesus and for all purpose he is as real as easter bunny and Santa Claus.

 

First

Then

 

None of them does.

 

That's great Ahmad... so how do you feel about that Bebo account?

And on a side note, yes many of the stories are relatively the same. You have Jesus, Moses, Noah (and the flood)... among others such as creation.

But I guess if you meant that "None of them" falls under the logical fallacy... then the bible must be true. I mean if they are saying about the same thing. And seeing as Christianity was around long before Islam, it must be the better religion?

You obviously do not know either religion very well, But hey what can you expect from a 16 year old anyway?

 

the problem with him is that if he says there are no fallacies enough, then it all becomes truth. This is how liberals and radical islamic imams brainwash those that follow them...

 

So true. I am interested to see why he is completely ignoring this Bebo account I found... I mean, the guy in it (who I suppose is him? As of now he hasn't denied it) has a mask on and is holding a gun at the camera. It quite reminds of me of all the terrorists we see on television everyday... so much for boasting about a peaceful religion

Ahmad, comments?

 

You can watch this and the related videos. 30 misconceptions "washed".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8XbBm8fT0Y

 

Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims

MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS



Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

 

Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

Answer:

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:


1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’


A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.


2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same


One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.


3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist


I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.


4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’


According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.


5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist


Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.


6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’


Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.


7. Islam means peace


Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.

 

So, for the like fourth time, how do you feel about this picture of a masked user named "Ahmad" holding a gun at the camera on that Bebo account? I mean, i'm simply curious seeing as Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, and if it turns out to be your Bebo you explicitly state to "play with guns"... Just curious

 

By killing all the jews and non muslim and those who do not submit, right? Denying the holocaust, demonstrate on the roads for death to america, england, europe and whatsoever. Now, this are not just a few, these are millions of fundamentalists a time. Is that the meaning of peace?

Have you ever researched your ideologie's history in the trinity of the quran, haddits and sunnas?
We can't change facts. Whatever is said good about Islam should have a historical backing, do you have one? What can you show us about it by using facts, even your books?

 

bullbla posts that as though it doesn't try to justify the actions of terrorists who murder.

Define "anti-social" elements. And who made Muslims the enforcers of the law that law breakers should fear you? And what law are you enforcing?

You have to be pretty thick to think that garbage makes Muslims look good. You're preaching "islamophobia."

It's exactly what is quoted there that the terrorists are following. They are trying to make the "anti-social elements" of the world fear them. And then when people do fear Muslims, you turn around and whine about islamophobia.

So good job. You're a terrorist supporter. And a fool for posting that.

It never ceases to amaze me the things that Muslims will say and then they wonder why people don't like them.

 

why don't you answer the questions that have been presented? Why do you keep trying to change the subject? Does this gain you more virgins (or white grapes, as many people translate it?)???

 

Well that’s your interpretation about what I posted. Anyone can twist words accordingly. Dear buddy, pl do try to read my post with neutral mind, with no previous hater, which is brain washed against Muslims by your media and Church.

Ok you are supposed to be very logical who always take facts and figure only. So I try to post you history and you can check this history with any source you like. And pl don’t just talk about the one side of the picture, you are very logical so also give a look what non-muslims doing with muslims. Pl let me know your justifications of killing thousands of mulims by non-muslims. I am open to correction but merely Calling something insane or simply abusing someone or some Creed doesn make ne Disparity. it rather shows the Belligerence. i hope i make myself Safe and Lucid.
Ok now may I post answer to: How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.


1. Islam means peace.


Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).


2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.


Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.


3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.


The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."


4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.


Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.


5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.


Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.


6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.


The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.


7. Indonesia and Malaysia.


Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"


8. East Coast of Africa.


Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"


9. Thomas Carlyle.


The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."


10. No compulsion in religion.


With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from error"
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]


11. Sword of the Intellect.


It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious."
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]


12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.


An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?


13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.


Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?


14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.

Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, "People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born".

 

you must not take things out of context. The example was mentioned for better understanding not as if muslim are going to take over world on the cast of blood

I cant help with your own hated biased interpretation. However, I will again say that merely Calling something insane or simply abusing someone or some Creed doesn make any Disparity. it rather shows the Belligerence.

"As to those who reject Faith it is the same to them
Whether thou warn them or do not warn them;
They will not believe.
"Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil
Great is the penalty they incur."
[Al-Qur’an 2:6-7]


And dear I am not here to make you like me. I did not even talk to you at first place, neither I used any bad word for you. It is you who called me fool and other bad stuff. Still you say Muslims are bad? Not fair….lets not get panic and just reveal our views on this platform. People are very smart and logical. They can judge what truth is. Let them decide

Anyhow, may I post an example how people are miss leaded about Islam and this results hate and anger. However, those who want to seek truth, they study and search, not only is church but also in Mosque and others.

A few selected verses from the Qur’an are often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its followers to kill those outside the pale of Islam.

1. Verse from Surah Taubah
The following verse from Surah Taubah is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality:

"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, polytheists, kuffar) where ever you find them."
[Al-Qur’an 9:5]

2. Context of verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriqs of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah to make amends. Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah Taubah says:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 9:5]

This verse is quoted during a battle.

3. Example of war between America and Vietnam
We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: "Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them". Today if I say that the American President said, "Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war.

4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle

Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where ever you find them", during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.

5. Shourie jumps from verse 5 to verse 7
Arun Shourie is one of the staunchest critics of Islam in India. He quotes the same verse, Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 in his book ‘The World of Fatwahs’, on page 572. After quoting verse 5 he jumps to verse 7 of Surah Taubah. Any sensible person will realise that he has skipped verse 6.

6. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer
Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:

"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge."
[Al-Qur’an 9:6]

The Qur’an not only says that a Mushriq seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?

This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Qur’an to promote peace in the world.

 

bullbla,

I know you try your best, but not for the best. That's where your main problems is. You are talking about the tiny (max. 3%) part of your dual system to look good.

Ask the Spaniards today if they want to have Islam back? It's like you're suggesting it is an islamic right to take Spain back to the reign of terror.

If I tried to post everything that speaks clearly against your soothing spirit, Shawn would have to take over all Google servers.

Officially confirmed number of slaughters by muslims = approx. 270 000 000
Others even claim its far over 300 000 000 - Nice piece of peace, isn't it? - Sure you are going to call it propaganda. But than propaganda of what? The truth probably?

How would you explain the offical beheadings in Saudi Arabia. I know of 55 this year so far. Is that what you mean by peace?

Todays reading about Irans stance at women affairs

Tehran Cracks Down on Feminist Movement
The burgeoning feminist movement in Iran is coming under increased pressure from Ahmadinejad's hardline regime. Activists who are campaigning to improve women's rights are being harassed, arrested and imprisoned for violating "national security."

Read it all here

These are just a few dust corns on the mountain of islamic guilt.

And while you're at it, explain us a bit about Darfur?