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Complete newbie - where do I start ?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by contractor milner, Apr 13, 2007.

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  1. #1
    Hi, I am fairly new to all this type of stuff - web building and alike, and my query is where to set out on learning how to build a website.
    I do believe in learning 'from the bottom' and wondered in what order is best to educate yourself, I have tried a couple of things, I started with mr site which was described as 'a website in a box' type of thing about 6 months ago - I found this great seeing as I'd never posted anything on the net before.
    I am presently 'trying' to build a website for a friends 40th birthday. Two reasons, firstly it was thought to be an original idea and secondly to enable myself to learn web building. I use frontpage 2000 for this and really don't have any knowledge of any programming whatsoever.
    Is there an order of how to progress i.e. would most people recommend learning html or would most use an editor like frontpage ?
    When consideing the content do you take seo into consideration and how ?
    Which other programming languages are important and again in which order ?
    To try and sum up I'm wondering what is the correct 'cirriculam' to learn and if possible where could I find it - I would like to learn from home via the net at my own pace and hopefully free of charge
     
    contractor milner, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  2. bacanze

    bacanze Peon

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    #2
    First, I wouldnt advise using Frontpage, use a better application such as Dreamweaver or a free html editor.

    Regarding learning web design, lynda.com have some great tutorials, also http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp have many useful articles and information regarding many aspects of web design.

    Hope it helps :)
     
    bacanze, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  3. webster13045

    webster13045 Peon

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    #3
    front page isn't a bad app if you know how to use it it does add a bunch of junk but for a newbie trying to start out i would recommend front page as it is user friendly
     
    webster13045, Apr 13, 2007 IP
    believe likes this.
  4. OoteR

    OoteR Peon

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    #4
    Front page is a bad app. Don't use frontpage if you actually want to learn anything and design sites that can be viewed by anyone consistently. I hate having pages render 3 to 4 different ways in even the same browser after a refresh..

    I'd download programmers notepad and start wit the w3schools link that was posted. htmlgoodies has some great tutorials and primers as well, and will even get you beyond the simple tutorials and onto javascripting etc.

    devshed is great for php/scripting and server stuff, that may be another site worth your while to look into.
     
    OoteR, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  5. Colbyt

    Colbyt Notable Member

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    #5
    Use FP or other editor if you must. Just don't use it to publish.

    A better plan is to open notepad, insert the following:

    Type something between the <body> </body> tags, save it as mypage.html and then view it in FF or IE.

    Now you are ready to start learning about the bells and whistles. This site will tell you what every <tag> is and what it does. Make it bold <b> add font color etc.

    This way is a lot slower starting out but you will learn what you are doing. You won't have to correct the garbage that FP or Dreamweaver adds to your pages.

    Notepad2, a free download will give you line counting and syntax highlighting when you are ready to learn about scripts.
     
    Colbyt, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  6. UneekTT

    UneekTT Peon

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    #6
    Never use front page again and it will be the best thing you ever did, but if you have to then do not publish with it as the above poster has clearly stated.

    Also, a good place to learn HTML is htmlgoodies.com, that is where I started and now look at what I can do:

    straightfocus.com
    getethos.com

    There are lots more too!

    Best of Luck to you :)
     
    UneekTT, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  7. estigma

    estigma Peon

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    #7
    Learn HTML... it's not that hard.

    Try Dreamweaver and start playing with css.
     
    estigma, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  8. scodal

    scodal Peon

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    #8
    What's wrong with frontpage? It does a GREAT job doing tables and cells extremely quickly. Get your rough draft busted out then open it in context and add your final touches.

    Frontpage even knows css even though it pretends it doesn't. You can do all your CSS editing and add your classes quickly and easily using the menus in frontpage or typing them in yourself.

    Dreamweaver is annoying in my opinion.

    I've tried nvu but it's too frustrating to get used to.
     
    scodal, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  9. Colbyt

    Colbyt Notable Member

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    #9

    Let me send you a few "nested tables" pages to edit. Then you get back to me a let me know how great you think it is.

    I still use it when I want to knock something out quick. Most times it is easier to write it.
     
    Colbyt, Apr 13, 2007 IP
  10. contractor milner

    contractor milner Peon

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    #10
    Whilst trying to digest the above would I be about right to say nobody likes fp but as Scodal says you could use it to write and then copy to notepad to adjust ?
    I use ipswitch to publish.
    I have looked at dreamweaver but at the minute don't wish to pay for an editor.
    I've visited the sites mentioned above and have decided to learn html to a point of knowing more than the basics - which hopefully gives a good foundation to step from.
    Could anyone expand on 'after this' - what are these other languages and what do they do or does it fall into place as you progress ?
    Am I looking too far forward ?
    As I 'tinker' and learn is there any other aspects I should take into consideration which run hand in hand with the basics like keywords and content and the actual designing to make a page both user friendly and search engine friendly.
    Many thanks for the help up to yet.
     
    contractor milner, Apr 14, 2007 IP
  11. Jalpari

    Jalpari Notable Member

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    #11
    learn Dreamweaver MX its an html editor also known as WYSIWUG ? read some tutorial on web , articles and some ebooks.
    u need the following:
    Adobe photoshop - mother of all application in 2d programming
    Macromedia Dreamweaver MX - html editor
    CSS
    Search engine optimization
    Website promotion
    Webhosting
    HTML

    at this time i am bit busy so next time i will all the important link for start learning webdev . best of luck
     
    Jalpari, Apr 14, 2007 IP
  12. OoteR

    OoteR Peon

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    #12

    Rather than "nobody likes fp" its more like "most despise fp"

    You don't need to shell out the cash for Dreamweaver, I had suggested it earlier, and I'll suggest it again. Download "programmer's notepad" it does syntax highlighting etc, and forces you to learn the actual code you are using. It's only like a 3 meg download and is lightweight/easy to use.

    Also, look into installing a webserver on your computer, it can be much faster than uploading stuff manually to a server on the net, and lets you view your site when you are offline etc.

    After you get html/css/javascript down (i'd learn them in that order)

    You can learn SEO and content all the way through. SEO isn't a hard process, picking a niche where you can rank is. It takes time for a domain to age anyway, so it actually wouldn't hurt you to work on SEO now. There are TONS of tutorials and even entire blogs dedicated to it. The blogs that rank at the top on google are the guys that know what they are doing, whether or not you can get any decent info off their site is another thing, but atleast you know they have it down if they are beating all the OTHER SEO people in rankings. :)

    Learn a bit about FTP so that you know WHY you need to set permissions etc when you upload files, and what those permissions actually mean.

    Next, I'd move on to a scripting language/apache configs (primarialy what you can do with .htaccess)

    I'd jump into PHP/ASP/PERL any of those 3 will work php probably has the biggest community willing to help you, and PERL can do anything, ASP locks you into some funky stuff with microsoft, but it isn't inherently BAD.

    learn how to do some fun stuff with Apache. Mod_rewrite, forwarding, passwording etc can all be useful to know.

    Along with PHP/ASP/Perl I'd learn some database or general SQL (Structured Query Language) information so that you can write database applications that will update on the fly, a good example of such an application would be this forum itself. It looks at the database to find out what posts are in this thread, then uses html to post it to the page. All through php. If you have the time you could get to this level in a few months, otherwise its just copy/paste code from tutorials until you understand what differences it makes.

    I learned basically all i know by looking at other peoples code and deciphering how it worked until i got a handle on it. You may not learn that way, but it's just a suggestion.

    Anyway, I'm self-taught and have a few sites that do quite a bit of work that I would have thought of as 'impossible' only a year ago. I'm sure you can do the same. :)
     
    OoteR, Apr 14, 2007 IP
  13. contractor milner

    contractor milner Peon

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    #13
    Many thx Jalpari and Ooter. I have looked at the programmer's notebook site and just wondered which version to download. Version 2 doesn't have the 'hex' editor - unsure what that is anyway - and the most stable version is 2 v0.6.1 or there is the older version 1.2.
    I shall download one of these and then concentrate with w3schools and html goodies to start with and hopefully be able to come back to you's soon knowing some html
     
    contractor milner, Apr 14, 2007 IP
  14. OoteR

    OoteR Peon

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    #14
    i have version 2.0.6.1 and it works alright for me.
     
    OoteR, Apr 14, 2007 IP
  15. contractor milner

    contractor milner Peon

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    #15
    Many thx Ooter, I have downloaded the same version and have started to 'play' - I think the option of my own web server is a way off yet but I do have an 'ftp account' - would you think it feasable to change a page at a time, what I mean is I have around 20 pages on the web all done using fp, could I re-write each one myself using html (they are only 'beginners' pages) and change them on the web one at a time or would this cause too many conflicts i.e. the navigation structure, or would you suggest re-writing them all before uploading and changing the lot.
    I think I have a 'niche' subject and am really looking forward to learning the basics of html, css and seo and hopefully will be moving forward to the others in a short while.
    Again many thx for your time
     
    contractor milner, Apr 15, 2007 IP
  16. OoteR

    OoteR Peon

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    #16
    Welp, lets see here, you already have a bunch of them up using frontpage but are thinking of rewriting them?

    Doesn't seem like a bad idea. Even modifying the code that frontpage produces can help you learn. Take the opportunity to play with some different settings/layouts and see how it all adjusts.

    and a webserver on your local computer can be about a 3 step process. search google for xampp. It has an automated installer and a bunch of forums/support to get you going.

    BUT if you are looking to learn html/css/javascript first, then learn them first, then play with the webserver :)
     
    OoteR, Apr 15, 2007 IP
  17. jl255

    jl255 Well-Known Member

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    #17
    if u r interested to start in seo basics, I have been writing a blog on SEO starting from the very basics and working my way up. I've finished the SEO101 part comprising of 7 chapters. Now just started SEO201. If interested go to
    http://blog.linksfactory.net

    Do leave your comments whether u find it useful or not ya?
     
    jl255, Apr 20, 2007 IP
  18. SHARKTICUS

    SHARKTICUS Peon

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    #18
    I've got some basic HTML tutorials on my site listed in my signature as well if you want them
     
    SHARKTICUS, Apr 20, 2007 IP
  19. contractor milner

    contractor milner Peon

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    #19
    Hi and many thx. Could I ask a little more ?
    I am still going down the route of learning html and css to start with but have also been reading that microsoft's web expression is a good tool for compiling and gives good 'clean' code. Does any one have any opinions on this ?
    The reason for asking is I am a little confused with how to save pages once written and how to 'file' them into one 'website' file. I use ipswitch to upload at the minute but could I ask is it easier to have your own server and do these cost to install ? If you have more than 1 page how do you check your site without uploading all the pages ? Is there a method of checking and verifying links without uploading ?
     
    contractor milner, Apr 21, 2007 IP
  20. stefanlyl

    stefanlyl Well-Known Member

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    #20
    i would use dreamweaver , very easy and it recommends ur next action
     
    stefanlyl, Apr 21, 2007 IP