Programming ethics debate

Ahhh... Yes, that's another main feature. Thanks for reminding Edited the above post.
One more point included in the Important Ethics

 

People say that, its a good thing if something you create is copied, as it means your successful.

I see no problems with it, he might not like it, some people may not respect you for it, but none the less he cant stop you doing it.

 

agreed with most but 1 point i wish to stress....

If you copied "the code" from the inventor then your a thief... point blank!
I dont feel that someone should come along and make say .."Deep Links" for phpld customers
when its already available just to sell it for a few bucks less...To me thats called theft..

 

Lol-- -what a funny post. Green rep for you to make me laugh. Tanks

 

What if he made it from scratch and gave it for free?
BTW I am sure it wouldn't take more than a day or two of work to make something like that?

 

Met an old friend today. Said to him: "Hello my firend".
He looked at me so strange and mad...
He said: "Do not rip me anymore, I've already said the same dozen times today".

 

well .... thiers always 2 sides to the coin..

you can change the look,the feel, and other aspects but it brings you
back to the origanel action...

the same 25 cent coin coming from the same pocket....

This issue has many ANDs and IFs that i truelly dont know
if they will ever change and or if its for the better or worse...

All i can say is that i and others have invested a good some of $$$ into such mod
and id be pretty pissed off, if a week later "joe blow" comes out and
offers them for free .

thx
malcolm

 

"use the solution from the original developer"
--- but why when you can build one yourself?



Mystik-compare my news mod with an0ns news mod at www.directorydump.com

Although the idea was the same, I did build it myself and what I believe to be a bit better (theres actually padding around the images). It was for me and a friends site---At first, since I thought it was a bit improved, I did try selling the mod for 12 bucks...but now I'm thinking why did I even bother. There is no way I plan on distributing this mod. In fact, I may just write a tutorial instead.


So back to the deep link mod---if theres no way I can improve the deep link mod, then yes, I may just build the EXACT feature for myself to use VS. going to an0n to pay. Will I distribute it as free and take away an0n's customers? Probably not---

 

Here you go jg123:

http://www.directorylinker.com/submit.php

link1
Title: Web Directory Bidding
URL: http://www.webdirectorybid.com/

Web directory based on a bidding system which promotes a healthy, yet competitive environment for website promotional and end user brand recognition. Bidding starts at $1 and is automatically adjusted and incremented after payment has been processed.

replace

link1 based on a bidding system which promotes a healthy, yet competitive environment for website promotional and end user brand recognition. Bidding starts at $1 and is automatically adjusted and incremented after payment has been processed.

you can submit a fake submition as if you were paying, so that you can see how it automatically adjusts.

 

BOTW was already a directory before mostly everyone else and then all these 1000's of others came along, are you all thieves?

 

Green for that one.

 

Leopard has brought up a good question.

IMO, competition is always healthy. In the Open Source arena, people tend to contribute to each others' code, other times people release a new module/plugin and an old one becomes redundant. (Take drupal as an example...which uses modules, whereas PHPLD requires modification of code -rather than "drop-in" modules- to be extended.) While someone might develop their plugin/module for their own commercial reasons they will often release it under the GPL (or other open source license) to be freely used by others.

On the other hand, commercial products (such as PHPLD) often have a mix of paid and free add-ons/tools. Companies will compete to release a "better" one, or fill requirements another does not (it does not necessarily mean the other product is worse). Definitely with commercial products competition is healthy ... for the consumer. It's good to have choice, it creates a better consumer market.

At the end of the day, it's the owners of PHPLD which need to sort this out in its licensing, e.g. not allow modifications/customisation to certain or all parts except for ones allowed by license (e.g. Dev Company X pays a fee to be allowed to create and release modules for Product A), if this is the path its developers wish to take.

I personally prefer to create my own code when I have a requirement with a phpscript as I enjoy coding so I get a buzz when I fix an issue or make a new (to my site) feature.

It's not that I don't want to pay someone for code. I did purchase access to VSDan's mods and also PHPLD 3.1 (I could have used a completely free directory script but I quite like phpLD, although 3.1 is still in testing and version 2.X is still live right now).

I don't personally sell mods and don't have an interest in that.

But I also put together quick and simple fixes for various bugs, added new features such as to display my blog's rss feed (a very simple php script called by include), and to ensure that the full category path to the link is displayed. Perhaps this has been done before and has been released as a mod, I don't know, I can code it in a few minutes so until the license of PHPLD restricts me I won't go looking for a mod and buying it unless I really can't make it/can't be bothered to make it myself.

I don't feel it's unethical of me to customise my PHPLD site. This is what Leopard was posting about (quote: "my soon personal mod that works like the deep link mod").

Just my £0.02.

 

Well then it would become an0n's problem.

Mods are starting to sound so lucrative ... now I wonder why I wasted my time writing my own directory ... should have just wrote mods. It would have been easier!

Keep up that kind of chatter and you will have more competition than you ever thought possible ... the QBC's are listening.

By the way it is nice to see an0n has so many friends and supporters ... even if it is a little misguided.

 

ryan_uk well stated and without pissing on anyone.

If a new better or cheaper mod for deep-linking was to be released I don't think any of the early clients would/should be upset. They were in on it early and probably reaped a reward for doing so. I am a little concerned about phpld's long-term viability because David is so limited in offering important mod's in future versions of the script.

If a new directory script came along today that incorporated everything phpld offers plus an included deep-linking module, plus a couple of dozen free templates, plus the various other paid mods that are out there, would phpld lose out to them? I would imagine most of the directory owners/builders would try it out and if it functioned smoothly and was supported they would probably pay a premuim. That is why I suggested a longtime ago that David maybe come to some agreement with the mod developers to include there mods for a piece of the action, even offer a premium version of phpld that includes these extras at a higher price.

I could see many folks dishing out say $50 for a fully mod'ed version of phpld?

 

BOTW actually became a directory sometime in 2003 or 2004 (too tired to look it up right now), there are many older directories compared to it. Not that it makes any difference.

 

All the while I was reading this thread I kept thinking to myself if someone had thought the way most of you all do, there would have never been MS-Access, Word, Excel, WordPerfect, PhotoShop, and a whole host of other software programs we use every day. As I read through and finally saw someone make a mention of this logic, I was chagrined to see no one mention it again as it is perhaps the strongest argument against "idea protection" and copyright for a programming concept.

I do think it would be more useful for Leopard to use his/her talents to create something different, but I don't see making a similar mod as copyright infringement.

From the US Copyright Website ...

Taking the mod and offering it under an open-source license may be perhaps distasteful as Anon has given so much to the directory industry and making a similar mod freely available would cut into his income stream, but it falls within both the letter and spirit of the law - at least in the US.

And in all honesty I doubt even Rob would say the idea of embedding multiple deep links within a directory entry's description was originally his alone. It's been discussed here and elsewhere and I believe there is at least one directory doing something similar (probably by hand) for a while now. He did take his considerable talents and his time to create an automated method for doing so and if anyone simply takes his code and claims it as their own, I hope he slams them for copyright infringement.

 

Many people needs to note one thing here

Cheap Business: You can steal. You can copy. You can try making some crap $$$. And you can always TRY making some clientile by doing business this way

Ethics: Your way of conduct. How to live & work in a community.How you communicate. Innovate. Originality, etc.

I just read some ****ing comment that Rob has many friends and supporters. I will tell you what Mr.. Get a original thing(mod) which should be must to use for a directoryowner and you will get many friends and supporter too.

Rob has earned a reputation and support and friendship coz of his work. If you have something then you will get some respect for that.


Now consider this
If we are still talking about "ETHICS" then think about it, you shouldn't have opened this thread on the first place. You said there is nothing much left to do in phpLD rather than improving the previous mods. This is a lame excuse. There can still be thousand of things. Make innovation your best friend and the world will respect you

However if we are not talking about Ethics and If you want to talk about "Cheap Business" then carry on with this thread. You are doing a good work then.

 

By far, this was one of the most unexpected post in this thread.

Whoever said I posted this topic to earn respect? It was out of my interest to create this thread. And thats good for Rob. I never tried taking one thing away from him, and if I did, please let me know. I'm sure he has a lot of respect for a reason.

Page 2 of this thread I stated:
And as with building original work---I sort of just got started, the RSS news mod took me 2 days to develop. I have some ideas of cool mods for phpLD that may take 2-3 weeks to develop---all original.

Never said I will not try to build something unoriginal.

I'm not using an excuse for anything. Not sure why you think I would need one in the first place.

As with trying to create mods...I will do so if needed be.

 

If you have the skills and the time to create a replica of another product, why the hell wouldn't you do it? Given the skills, you can either trade time or money.

If I were LeopardAt1, I'd create the mod then release it under a MIT or GPL license - competition is a good thing.

 

According to the footer this directory would qualify as pretty damn old (perhaps the oldest). Credit for finding this goes to Malcolm, I just stumbled across it.

"These pages and the database © The WWW Virtual Library (WWWVL) 1991-latest update." 1991!!! Most of you schmucks weren't alive then :>

An0n has thousands of posts and hundreds of clients. I would hope he made more friends that foes in this time. Right now, he is obviously the "cool kid in class" and is a bit cocky because of it.

I, personally, have no problem with the way he conducts business. He is making his tools the "must have" features for the most popular directory script. This is just a good (short term) business plan, it is time to evolve to your own script man. He also has enough supporters (misguided, yes but loyal) but this is because it is good for their business as well.

Take a look at all that business that was rounded up by the deep links thread 550+ posts over 3 weeks and people are still yapping about it daily. It also seems from Malcolm's list that this generated 60+ projects for An0n to do. That's a couple grand, no?

I personally think you should not be offended by people seeing this and wanting to copy it. Be proud, you guys figured out how to play the DP game. Get on a team and support each other and drive business to other team mates directories.

I say well done on the business side, it worked. I do think you should remove the part about "in your girlfriends panties" form your location. I would say bad karma, tho most geeks on DP don't care because they have never been laid. Plenty of fish in the sea boss, go get your own blowfish.