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Questions Muslims don't like to answer

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by DiscussionPeace, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #401
    Okay, zarul, I will check out the site. Thanks for the invite.

    IN Christ
     
    Dead Corn, Sep 4, 2006 IP
  2. SunLove

    SunLove Peon

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    #402
    Zarul,

    Are ok? Is everything fine with you?
    sunlove
     
    SunLove, Sep 7, 2006 IP
  3. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #403
    That's one of the lame sort of discussions over there.
    Get your nose into this and as you promised that you can answer some, but not all, questions.
    That's where all of you are stumbling. Some of your brothers are boosting themselves that the quran is soooo scientific, IN FACT ITS HORRIFIC.

    Looks like your fortress (quran) is falling into pieces.
    Miscellanea:
    Science and the Hadith (Muhammad's own understanding ...)
    Articles on other sites evaluating the claims regarding Qur'an and Science:
     
    Arnie, Sep 7, 2006 IP
  4. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #404
    I am going with the Eagles to win the superbowl this year

    thats right

    E - A - G - L - E - S!!!!!!

    All the way!!!!!!!!!

    By the way to the guy with all the links above this post.....you found out what a search engine can do in the hands of a mastermind eh?????
     
    Sem-Advance, Sep 7, 2006 IP
  5. SunLove

    SunLove Peon

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    #405
    Deep silence.
    (I think we speak the truth, and wonder why people don't want to learn the truth.) Knowing the truth is the best for people.

    (I doubt they'll have time and space to reply you Arnie. It is hard to get out of the box.)

    In regards to your post (Arnie)
    There should be an international "test" for holiness and divinity.

    Also public discussions should be held on TV on all issues where there is reasonable doubt that certain things in some religions are obviously not true.

    We live in 21st Century and even the children know that the Earth is not egg shaped as it is clamed in one religion. And that is only one of the many things that are obviously false out there.
    sunlove
     
    SunLove, Sep 8, 2006 IP
  6. KLB

    KLB Peon

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    #406
    I posted this in another thread, but it is appropriate here as well. In this post one will find the answer to the call for the destruction of infidels, and how this expressly excludes Jews and Christians in the Koran:


    My Muslim acquaintance has been doing some wonderful research and I just received an email from him with some of the initial material he thought was important. One thing he told me is that he is focusing much of his research on non-Muslim scholars as he feels referring to scholarly works by Muslims might be seen as less objective by non-Muslims.

    An article he pointed me today is Challenging Ignorance on Islam: a Ten-Point Primer for Americans by Gary Leupp who is an an associate professor, Department of History, Tufts University and coordinator, Asian Studies Program. It is very good reading and is really a basic primer on the history of Islam and what it is about. Since it would be copyright infringement for me to repost that article here, I recommend people following the link and reading the article. For those who don't want to follow the link, I'll try to highlight some important points of the articles in my own words, but all of this post uses the linked article as the source material so read it to to make sure I kept things in perspective of what was written in that article.



    It is important to note that Islam comes out of a Judeo-Christian tradition and that Jesus is an important figure in the Koran. In fact, according to Gary Leupp, the Koran dedicates more space to Mary mother of Jesus than does the New Testament of the Bible. One big difference between Islam and Christians is that while Christians believe Jesus was the son of God, Muslims believe that Jesus was only an important prophet or messenger of God. It is very clear that that Islam worships the Judeo-Christian God of Abraham.

    In the Koran Jews and Christians are depicted as "people of the book". This means that according to the Koran Jews and Christians have their own holy scriptures that were bestowed upon them by God ("Allah," in Arabic).

    In regards to God/Allah, this is an important note, so I will quote it:
    The Koran does NOT call upon Muslims to kill all non-believers, rather it calls upon the destruction of "infidels," who were principally Arabs who were practicing idolatry and polytheism during the time of Muhammad. As some of us have been trying to point out throughout this thread this is where writings must be put in context. Gary was very careful to point out that the Koran is a 7th century book and it must be viewed in this context. At that the time the Koran was dictated and written down the Arab world was practicing idolatry and the Koran was calling for the violent rejection of the practices. Gary also points out that within decades the tribes of Arabia had united behind the monotheistic teachings of the Koran.

    So yes, the Koran calls for the destruction of the infidels, but there are two very important points that have been sorely overlooked in this thread and are extremely important:

    1) The Koran recognizes Jews and Christians as fellow followers of God who God had also given sacred scriptures (and thus by definition are not "infidels"); and

    2) The time the Koran was written was indeed very important to knowing what was being said when the Koran calls for the destruction of the "infidels," which turned out to be those Arabs who were practicing idolatry.

    Since those raising concerns in this thread a) are not Arabs, b) do not practice idolatry and c) are Christian (who are explicitly protected as "People of the Book"), they really don't have anything to fear from good Muslims who strictly follow the teachings of the Koran.

    Another point I have been trying to make that is also made in this article is that Islamic fundamentalists are not much different from Christian fundamentalists or Jewish fundamentalists. In Gary's words:

    Again it is not Islam, Christianity or Judaism that is the threat it is extremists (regardless of their religion) who are the threat.

    One very interesting critical observation of Islam Gary had was that where as the European Christian world went through an "enlightenment" during the 17th and 18th centuries which allowed the West to modernize by means of capitalism and become more tolerant (e.g. less religious) both of these are critical for the free flow of ideas as is the importance of separating religious teachings from the rest of education (e.g. sciences, math, history, etc.).

    Unfortunatly the Islamic world has yet to really embrace such an enlightenment of their own and this may be holding them back in many ways. For instance education is still monopolized by mullahs (religious leaders), much like Catholic clergy monopolized education in medieval Europe (aka the Dark Ages).

    Two very interesting points in the article were #8 and #9. While the Muslim world is very upset with American policy and our history of supporting and protecting brutal regimes like Shah of Iran and that of Indonesia's Suharto (who according to Gary has even more blood on his hands than Saddam Hussein), they still greatly admire the U.S. as a country (or at least they did in June of 2002 when a Zogby International poll found that in nine Muslim countries the U.S. was the most admired country).

    Another point I have been trying to make in my past several posts is the sordid history of the formation of Israel in 1948 and the treatment of Palestinians since. Again since this is very important I will quote Gary:
    Again I strongly recommend reading the article if you haven't already (http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp0724.html). It is very interesting reading and unlike some here it tries to look at this issue from a dispassionate historical prospective, not a prospective tainted by a religious and political agenda.

    I will post more in the coming days and weeks as information is provided to me.
     
    KLB, Dec 16, 2006 IP
  7. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #407
    GTech, Dec 16, 2006 IP
  8. hextraordinary

    hextraordinary Well-Known Member

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    #408
    KLB, the problem is that what scholars say or write in academic papers is not the same as what imams and preachers say in mosques. I believe most people don't have a problem with Islam, but with Islamists.
     
    hextraordinary, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  9. wmghori

    wmghori Well-Known Member

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    #409
    Nice post KLB. Now I think this will put an end to the silly posts about which religion or prophet is bad which is good.
     
    wmghori, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  10. KLB

    KLB Peon

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    #410
    I would agree that there are imams who preach a distorted view of Islam in their mosques and this is a problem. I do not believe, however, we should hold all Muslims to account for what some in their religion preach. None of us who are Christian want to be held to account for what the extremists elements of Christianity try to teach. What we should do is to try to isolate the extremists of all religions by embracing the moderates of the religions. If moderate Christians and Muslims embrace each other with tolerance and respect we can start to attract the masses to a moderate and tolerant point of view. In time this will isolate the extremists and they will lose their base of power.

    People will know Christianity by our acts and our deeds. If we show kindness, respect and tolerance, others will learn that Christianity is a religion of peace. If we show disrespect and intolerance, this will reflect upon how others view Christianity and this will harden the views of others against Christianity. In this season of peace, we should really embrace the peaceful aspects of Christ's teachings and let this reflect in the way we treat our fellow man even when they do not believe what we believe and even if we see their beliefs as a threat to ours. Christ did teach that good will triumph over evil and peace can triumph over violence.
     
    KLB, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  11. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #411
    The difference between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists is that the Christian extremists will find no support for their actions in the Bible.

    Notice that the Catholic church has changed significantly over the centuries. The Bible has not. Nobody associates the KKK with Christianity. The work has long been done by the Christian community to make the distinction. One of the most famous people that helped the black community during the civil rights movement was a white Lutheran minister. Anybody with a brain can read the Bible and see that God doesn't not preach racism. In fact, there are a number of verses that teach quite the opposite.

    I'm still waiting for those verses that GTech keeps refering to, to magically disappear from the Koran. As soon as that happens terrorists will find no support for their actions in the Koran. There is certainly no condemnation from the Koran and only excuses from the Muslim community.

    I would have been impressed if there had been a press conference because the a-hole that planned to blow up a mall in the name of Allah was an embaressment and an insult to Islam.

    Where in the Koran does it say to love your enemy?

    "Christ did teach that good will triumph over evil and peace can triumph over violence."

    Not in this world. Evil will take over this world, then the end comes. It's only going to get worse.
     
    KalvinB, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  12. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #412
    Now if only you practiced what you preach :rolleyes:

    you wouldn't seem such a hypocrite
     
    Sem-Advance, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  13. KLB

    KLB Peon

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    #413
    Contrary to what you might like to try and insinuate, anybody who knows me in person knows that I do practice what I preach. There is a difference between speaking out against those who misrepresent certain "unpopular" beliefs and being intolerant of others.

    I will defend any body's right to speak out and believe what they want, however, I will also do my best to drown out the voices who preach intolerance and hatred of the religions of others.
     
    KLB, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  14. Codythebest

    Codythebest Notable Member

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    #414
    From the Islam point of view, is it better to be a murderer believer or a good citizen atheist?
     
    Codythebest, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  15. sam2698

    sam2698 Well-Known Member

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    #415
    Islam from what I believe does not really have any serious problems against atheists, if you do not want to believe that's fine with them, society will not frown upon you and nothing will be done against you unless you start insulting or carrying out attacks against them, then they will bomb you. And the same is with the believers and the only bad thing is that the society views are controlled by what the news media and the Imam are saying and if they are say bomb and do Jihad, they will do it.

     
    sam2698, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  16. Codythebest

    Codythebest Notable Member

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    #416
    So, there is nowhere in the Quran something against people who do not believe in any God, correct?
    I was thinking about the infidels...
     
    Codythebest, Dec 17, 2006 IP
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  17. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #417
    Atheists are the worst of the non-believers in islam, as they have no God at all.
     
    GTech, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  18. Codythebest

    Codythebest Notable Member

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    #418
    Ok...I have two different answers now :(
    So, now, who's right??
    I have friends from all religion. I don't care since I don't believe. So for me, they are all the same: friends...
     
    Codythebest, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  19. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #419
    GTech, Dec 17, 2006 IP
  20. wmghori

    wmghori Well-Known Member

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    #420
    The verses you are referring or the extremists take out from Quran for their way of life are totally out of context. Surely Quran says kill the non believer. But you have to read the verses before that verse and after that verse. If you read that you'll find out that it says if they surrender and put down their arms then treat them with kind heart. And the killing verse is for the time of War not for Peace time. In peace time every Muslim or non-Muslim have equal rights under Islamic Government. Even prisoners of war have more rights in Islam than most of the citizens of modern countries. If you say look what they have done to prisoners in Lebanon or in Afghanistan, then I’m going to point out look what American govt. is doing in Guantanamo bay prison camp and in many other Black Cells operated by CIA. But those are individual acts of government Christian or Muslim aside.

    According to shariah Islamic government is responsible for safety and right to practice religion of every non-Muslim citizen.

    In the end I repeat again, all the verses in Quran about killing the non-believers are for the time of WAR. I’m sure USA doesn’t teach their soldier to turn your other cheek in battlefield. You can find US army manual about the different ways to kill enemies.

    Hope that clear any doubts but if you still have any question feel free to PM me, its hard to track posts in the threads.

    Regards,
    Waqar Ghori
     
    wmghori, Dec 17, 2006 IP
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