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Scammed by a large company: Greensmoke Ecigs

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Waffleguy, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. #1
    Greensmoke ran an affiliate program where most of the money for affiliates was from repeat sales. If you sold a kit, the commission was small, but when anyone from that same IP bought refills, we would get the sale even years later. They promised lifetime commisions from all the referred customers. There was an ecig boom a few years ago that is largely over.

    In November and December they shut down the accounts of most of the affiliates. I am in contact with 30+ affiliates who all had their accounts shut down. I understand that "Lifetime commissions" would mean the lifetime of the company, but Greensmoke is still a large and profitable company.

    What should I do about this? They shut down my account without any warning with the stated reason that they wanted to reduce the size of the affiliate program. My residuals were several hundred dollars per month. Their TOS is essentially a contract, am I right? What are the chances of a lawsuit going anywhere? Many of the affilaites want to do a "class action."
     
    Waffleguy, Jan 3, 2015 IP
  2. Page3

    Page3 Member

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    #2
    You might want to read the TOS very carefully before thinking about a suit. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that their actions are fully covered by their TOS.
     
    Page3, Jan 4, 2015 IP
  3. Pigeon Yoga

    Pigeon Yoga Active Member

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    #3
    Is there a lawyer in your family or friend's families that you can talk to?
     
    Pigeon Yoga, Jan 4, 2015 IP
  4. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #4
    I am a lawyer and have been an affiliate for many companies, including ecig companies, so I think I appreciate the issues. I think you may well well have a valid claim, and lucky for you the company is still there so there might actually be someone to sue and collect a judgment from. The real (initial) question is going to come down to how much money is at stake, so that you guys can get someone to take the case. Sounds like there might be. (100 affiliates doing ~$250 a month gets to ~$250,000+ a year, and damages could be for more than one year of commissions)

    I'd contact a lawyer in your area to get a consultation and some specific advice for your situation.
     
    browntwn, Jan 8, 2015 IP
  5. MYates37

    MYates37 Peon

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    #5
    I am also an attorney, am in the process of putting together a claim against the company, and have an attorney I am working with (lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client). If there are other affiliates out there, I will be glad to speak with them about joining the lawsuit if our interests match well enough. PM me if so.
     
    MYates37, Jan 9, 2015 IP
  6. dscurlock

    dscurlock Prominent Member

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    #6
    Their TOS is not a contract that would benefit you.
    You are not an employee, and affiliates have much
    less equal then employee rights, in other words, if their
    lawyers wrote their TOS right, then affiliates have no rights.
    Sure, you can sue; the atty will get 40%+ if you win, then
    greensmoke will appeal, and reappeal, and this can go
    on for many years to come, and the atty will weigh his
    options too; will he want to ride this out until payday....
    Or will he want to invest his time wisely in something
    he knows he can win, such as a wrongful-death case.
    and just so you know, affiliate sites can changes their
    terms without notice as you are nothing more then a guest
    in their house, and you are forced to play by their rules.
     
    dscurlock, Mar 30, 2015 IP
  7. matt_62

    matt_62 Prominent Member

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    #7
    BUMP: Op? any result? Did you seek consult with legal professionals or receive any compensation?
     
    matt_62, Jul 20, 2015 IP
  8. MYates37

    MYates37 Peon

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    #8
    We are moving forward with a complaint, and are in the process of certifying a class. If anyone is interested in learning more about the lawsuit, particularly those who worked with the company prior to 12/11/2011, please email your basic contact information to . Please send this information to any other affiliates you may know who worked with the company.

    Thanks
     
    MYates37, Jul 20, 2015 IP
    matt_62 likes this.
  9. Torans

    Torans Active Member

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    #9
    You can't do anything! They closed my account too and were protected by their TOS, which usually is very merchant friendly ->> typical to merchants in this industry.
     
    Torans, Nov 22, 2015 IP
  10. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #10
    Not with that shitty attitude, you can't.
     
    browntwn, Nov 24, 2015 IP
  11. markscottie

    markscottie Greenhorn

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    #11
    Hey I do hope you people haven't faded away just because of some shitty atititude or assumptions that "you can't do anything".

    I am suing the british govt, have been doing so for 8 YEARS now. Since day one, I heard nothing but "can't" and "impossible", and here i am years later, WINNING against all the odds.

    THIS CASE IS FAR EASIER! I was an affiliate of GS. I joined a few years ago and was offered lifetime commissions. Who said above that lifetime means lifetime of the company? I didn't assume that at the time at all, I assumed the normal meaning means "lifetime of CUSTOMER". I am pretty sure I have an email from GS confirming this somewhere too, others must have as well.

    A clear lifetime commission structure was deliberately and knowingly sold to all early affiliates. Affiliates who BUILT GS to what it is today, and ENABLED their growth into the buyout by Altria. I personally brought GS more than $100,000 in sales revenue, JUST ME! I still earn residuals of $500-1000 per month, but have just been dumped, presumably to avoid the lifetime commission thing they no longer feel good about. WELL TOUGH SH*T. You either honor agreements, or you PAY TO GET OUT OF THEM. If you do neither (if I have anything to do with it) then you get your ass sued off and you end up paying to get out plus compensation PLUS COSTS. So let's roll up sleeves and take these devious fraudulent swines to the cleaners, they should understand that concept, they have done it to hundreds of affiliates.

    Utter DISGRACE. To think I once sung the praises of this company's customer service standards. Time to hit back. Please PM me with any information if there is an action underway. If not, I will start one of my own, gladly.
     
    markscottie, Dec 5, 2015 IP
  12. markscottie

    markscottie Greenhorn

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    #12
    Ha ha, looked back through my files. I am so used to dishonest sheisters these days, I routinely take screenshots of things and store them away in folders . Call me paranoid, or call me wise, either way, here is precisely what GS's affiliate offer looked like to me the day I signed up, note date top right:

    [​IMG]
    They are absolutely 100% liable here as far as I am concerned. Please would someone update this if any actions are underway, as I have both US attorney and UK solicitors who I am working with on another class action who would no doubt love to learn about this situation, it would be a walk in the park compared to their usual cases.
     
    markscottie, Dec 5, 2015 IP
  13. Commoner

    Commoner Banned

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    #13
    Hey guys, surely you'll try to outbeat an indestructible fortress. The outcome has only one side - win or lose. However, ever consider the repercussions or aftermath of this legal battle.

    Opinion: More affiliates may lose their accounts just to cover the legal battles and the firm wouldn't care less as fresh ones will enter to promote and earn. It doesn't make a difference hence with your talents, move on to the next company but remembering to share your experience to the general public or aspiring ones.

    Warm Regards
     
    Commoner, Dec 6, 2015 IP
  14. markscottie

    markscottie Greenhorn

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    #14
    I am not sure if a human being even wrote that post above. I can't really understand it, but I think it's asserting the idea that GS is a big company so don't bother fighting them. Ha, remind me not to recruit you to my army if I have to fight a battle. Not only are you an apparent moron, you are clearly a gutless one too. For what its worth, I have fought a battle a hundred times bigger than this, AND WON. I spent 8 years being told "you can never win" and "you have no hope against such a huge opponent". This opponent was the British Government and two massive financial firms, over a claim worth many millions. I had NO money, NO expertise, and NO contacts. I WON. I had that little thing called "RIGHT ON MY SIDE". I was RIGHT, my claim was RIGHT, so insurance companies backed and insured my claim, and 3rd party funders made a nice bit of money out of funding my claim too, to the tune of millions I might add. All from nothing but a person who was wronged but wouldn't rest until the wrong was righted.

    I have a pair even if you don't. I have a pair even if NOBODY else did. I will go it alone if needed, but I will NOT let this simple case of unlawful trading practice wrong me or others. What GreenSmoke have done is unlawful. Why should it make the slightest difference how big they are? The bigger they are, the bigger the payout will be WHEN THEY LOSE. You don't need money to win, you need to be RIGHT. That part is already in the bag. I have a full pack of evidence proving not only that they agreed lifetime commissions with me (and others) for the LIFE OF THE CUSTOMERS I referred, but I have also got plenty of evidence that they marketed this lifetime commission arrangement PUBLICLY in various media. They really don't have a leg to stand on. I simply need to get a legal action going, and the only thing preventing me doing so thus far is the suggestion (above) that others are already doing so. It is looking increasingly likely that this is a shill, or designed to do what it did for me, i.e. delay my action. I won't delay any more.

    If ANYONE is reading this and knows of any class action under way or already formed, please let me know by PM or reply here. In the mean time I will set about arranging my own path to a settlement with GreenSmoke. You can't just offer something to entice people to help you grow your business exponentially, then back out of the agreement when you realise the growth has happened and you now want to trim outgoings or boost profits. Screw that, it don't work in logic, in morals, or IN LAW. Coming for you Greensmoke, and I know your reading this Kevin ;)
     
    markscottie, Dec 14, 2015 IP
  15. markscottie

    markscottie Greenhorn

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    #15
    Sorry. I just read your signature. I understand you much better now. thanks for your valued input.
     
    markscottie, Jan 29, 2016 IP
  16. Mark Jones

    Mark Jones Peon

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    #16
    Mark: I am a former employee of Green Smoke. I left before the buy out and before they started closing affiliate accounts. Though I definitely don't agree with Green Smoke's/Altria's decision here, legally you have no case.

    You mentioned that you are in the right here. I hate to break it to you but you are in the wrong here. The TOS that you signed mentions explicitly that they can cancel your account at ANY time for ANY reason. They also mention that they can change the TOS at ANY time for ANY reason. When I worked there, the legal department was SO SO adamant about being in the right that everything was scrutinized over and over again, especially the affiliate program. Also, now you are trying to go against Big Tobacco. Just because you defeated the British government doesn't mean you will win against Altria. One doesn't have to do with the other, especially considering you have no case here. What they did was not moral. At all. Legal? 100% legal.
     
    Mark Jones, Apr 6, 2016 IP