The standoff between Russia & Ukraine

LOL. Changing the elected government by using Neo-Nazi groups, football hooligans and poor people who get paid to demonstrate is bringing democracy and prosperity to Ukraine. After all, we all know how happy, rich and content people are in all other USA colonies and everyone can ask people in South America, Iraq, Afghanistan,... About how they are enjoying life everyday under colonial rule of the USA.

 

Loved the WaPo article by Mufson. When it comes to unscientific, "global warming", anti-fracking, anti-fossil fuels agit-prop, there is nobody better. He had a hilarious piece he did for TED on Keystone XL, where he thoroughly explored every potential negative the pipeline might bring to fruition. A classic line from the his book went something like, "Two in ten people oppose the pipeline. Why? For starters ...". LMAO. If it were one in one hundred it would be equally laughable.

These retards deserve the geopolitical climate they get, too bad for the Ukraine.

 

Because you don´t like the Washington Post, I give you The chief executive of Cheniere Energy, the same company that you linked to in your reply in this thread.

"Mr Souki, chief executive of Houston-based Cheniere Energy, which is due to become an exporter of natural gas next year, was asked if his company could reduce Europe’s dependence on Gazprom, the Russian gas group.

“It’s flattering to be talked about like this, but it’s nonsense,” he said. “It’s so much nonsense that I can’t believe anybody really believes it.”
.......................
For example, although the glut of shale gas available to US power generators has prompted a diversion of coal for export to Europe, it will be some years before liquefied natural gas can be exported in scale from the US."


I hope you have nothing against Financial Times but if you don´t like them either, I can give you other respectable sources while you repeat the nonsense of American loonies. I especially liked the fact that Mr Souki called this nonsense because I thought how typical of obamanation to support it.

 

Oh Gworld. I do miss our little chats. Its always entertaining to read a quote like the one above, look at the part of the quote that reads ".......................", and wonder what exactly you omitted in the name of furthering your argument. Let me share with our fellow DPers a few of the precious gems from your FT article, as well as the link.

In context, Chenerie's CEO was asked if "his company’s exports alone" could liberate Europe from Russia’s Gazprom. Nobody has implied that, including myself. He did add to his "nonsense" quote the following: "US exports could still make a “significant difference” and that the prospect of them was helping Europe’s gas buyers by giving them more bargaining power with existing suppliers". Truth be told, the president simply announcing such an objective would make a huge difference and send Gazprom's stock plummeting, as I stated earlier.

Here are some other gems:

"Cheniere’s terminal, Sabine Pass in Louisiana, is due to export its first LNG towards the end of 2015. At full capacity it will send out 2.2bn cubic feet of gas per day, but Europe’s daily consumption is 40-50bn cubic feet, Mr Souki noted.

LNG exports to countries that do not have a trade agreement with the US require special permits from the US Department of Energy. Twenty-four applications that have either been approved or are pending would create a total export capacity of 38.5bn cubic feet per day.

But Mr Souki said the only ones he considered to be real were the six to eight that had started a separate process – which he said entailed $100m in costs – of gaining permits from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, or Ferc, which assesses environmental and safety standards."

“Until somebody tells me they’re willing to spend $100m, I don’t consider them real,” he said. His project is the only one to have received Ferc approval.

Last month Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia urged the US Congress to help them buy American natural gas by loosening export limits.

Despite criticism levelled at the Obama administration by Republicans who say it has dragged its feet in approving terminals, Mr Souki said the Department of Energy had not slowed down a single project. On Ferc, he said: “They are doing their job there remarkably well and I think they need to continue to do so without any pressure.”​

www ft.com/cms/s/0/96f9e220-c0cb-11e3-bd6b-00144feabdc0.html

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​

So what have we learned from the complete article?

• Chenerie's CEO thinks LNG exports would make a "signficiant difference" in Europes relationship with Russia
• Federal Regulations require special permits and currentlhy prevent export of LNG
• The permitting process costs 100m dollars, a cost Souki feels is a barrier to entry
• Chenerie is quite content to have a monopoly on US LNG exports for the time being and congratulates the FEDS on their diligent regulatory process.

 

Obamanation,

you can build thousands of ports. IT's about price first and it won't be cheaper. you missed that point. If europeans can pay more - you have to pursue them as a seller. Russia is already looking to sign a deal with China, so noone gonna die from it here.

 

Simple mathematic for dummies: 2.2/50= 4.4%, Russia exports 30% and this is if the ass kisser politicians in Europe can somehow justify the higher prices to their citizens and explain that their people should pay more and freeze in winter because they want to serve the geopolitical interests of the USA so they hope to get a cushy job later when they leave the national politics. The question is how many Tony Blair USA can have before people start to protest?

 

Still peddling the idea that Chenerie is, and can be the only LNG export terminal in the US. Not sure what to say to that. Read my post again?

Cheaper than what? It sure as hell would be cheaper than $485/cubic meter, a price Russia can levy on the Ukraine ONLY because it does not have other alternatives. When the Ukraine's price from Russia is $485/cubic meter, by definition, they instantly become the highest bidder in the open market, putting them ahead of any other potential European client. That should seem obvious.

Regarding Russia being able to sell to China, who cares? Gazprom delivers 40% of Europe's gas right now. As long as Europe has other options, It can tell Gazprom to F' itself for being a horrible world citizen by invading it's neighboring countries. Russia can sell all the gas it wants to China, it is still going to lose a tremendous amount of money.

Lets be clear. ANY overt effort the US takes in stating an export policy that frees Europe from Gazprom's choke hold will have an immediate impact on Gazprom's price as all their energy pricing is based on futures. A few of the right words from our president's mouth and the price plummets.

Quoting from Gworld's Financial Times article, "Last month Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia urged the US Congress to help them buy American natural gas by loosening export limits.". If those countries aware of the impact, I guarantee you Putin is as well.

 

1) We aren't talking about Ukraine, its not in EU.
2) yeah right, europeans will tell to f off for you, they aren't dumb to pay more just because you want it.
3) you are saying that shale gas is cheap and you have loooots of it. Post examples whom do you sell it for 265$ delivering across the ocean? its just all your fantasies, that's all.
4) The price for LNG delivered to Europe will be $430 for 1,000 cubic meters, while Gazprom is selling it for $394 for 1,000 cubic meters.

 

What is your point? Ukraine's membership to the EU has no bearing on the price of LNG after we enter the market.

They will tell Russia to F off for two reasons. One, because Russia is a crappy world citizen that invades its neighbors. Two, Russia's share of the gas market allows them to play with the price. Did you not read the quote from your European neighbors, BEGGING for the ability to tell Russia to F itself? Let met provide it again. Last month Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia urged the US Congress to help them buy American natural gas by loosening export limits.

We haven't even started exporting yet, which my many posts above made very clear. $265 is our average price over the last year. Right now, it is a little higher, but it has been under $200 as recently as 6 months ago. Delivery charges look like they will add from 4-10$ to that price. Not good news for Russia.

Provide a source for that quote. I won't hold my breath.

One thing that has become pretty clear in covering this topic with you, a Russian, is that you feel threatened by any discussion of non-military means that would bring your rogue "President" to heel. Across the board, in the UN, his actions are being condemned, and given the wishy washy nature of that body, that is saying something. Does the concept of Russian greatness so brighten your dreary life that you would support invading your neighbors to boost your sagging self esteem?

 

Obamanation,
Russia and China seal historic $400bn gas deal
Now Russia does not depend on Europe.

"UK to start directly buying Russian gas"
http://rt.com/business/russia-uk-gas-imports-825/

Actually, Im not a fan of Putin and I've never voted for him. You are wrong here. invading neighbours? If it was me I would not invade, the only reason he invaded is because Russia has a naval base over there for centuries + majority of population are ethnic russians that FOUGHT for this land with turks long time ago. I doubt US would give it up if it were in Russia's shoes.

 

I think Putin has just gone crazy and made his nation hating Americans (and Ukrainians as our allies) just to rule more effectively. People who come from Russia, often describe it as a great country but with no civic freedoms and high corruption. It's like any government official can come and capture you off-line )) business, and you can't do anything with that even thru the court. And somehow Russians (at least those who stay in the country) love that and want all the world obey rules like that. That's why nobody understands Russians and lots of travellers hate them or try to keep away from them.

 

I agree, anti-american propaganda is strong over here. However, not all people are zombies, all our political "elite" have children abroad, they travel abroad, they have money abroad. Only idiots fall for that propaganda. The generation of commies is still alive as well, but that will end soon too.

 

LOL. How is what you describe, any different than USA? Tell me another joke like how USA is such a democratic country that is ruled by the people for the people through a bunch of honest politicians and the only reason people hate USA is because it is the symbol of democracy and civil liberties.

 

This cognitive dissonance is a really interesting phenomenon -- what those smart kids living in US and Europe think of Putin's discourse? For sure they see how fake the Russian media world picture is. Are they gonna come back and bring changes with them?

 

Sure it is! We in the States invade other countries helping them, and Russians invade other countries because they are just very bad guys

 

LOL. For a minute I thought you were serious and claiming USA does something positive.

 

Give it up? They haven't had it since the USSR, and even then, only after stealing it from the Turks, as you point out.

The only reason there is an ethnic Russian population in Crimea is because the Russian military used to give their officers two choices for retirement: Crimea and Siberia. The choice was obvious. Before the USSR started flooding the place with their retired military, the place was occupied by the Tatars, who I can assure you are not happy to see Russia reclaiming their land, USSR style. They may not be thrilled with the Ukraine, but they sure as hell don't like Russia. By your logic, Britain would be perfectly within it's rights to invade any of it's former colonies with a heavy British population. The world has changed.

Besides, we aren't really even talking about Crimea anymore, are we. We are talking about the Ukraine, where there is no majority ethnic Russian presence.

@gworld: For the USA to do something analogous, we would have to stack our troops up on the Canadian border, destabilize the government of Canada, and then fund "revolutionaries" within their borders while chastising the Canadian government for doing anything to protect it's sovereignty. There is nothing the US has done in the last century that is in any way analogous to what Russia/Putin is doing today.

 

Hahaha, Crimea was russian since "Catherine the Great" times - thats the time when USA was founded for your reference.

What are you talking about? stealing? is that a new word for the war?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
plain wiki quote for you.

I dont think putin will take Eastern Ukraine, if he was up to it he would have done it by now.

 

No, but War has often been the means by which theft was accomplished. Prior to 1945, things were more or less always somewhat up for grabs. These days, most UN members like to support each other's sovereignty, and violation of said sovereignty to add land to your own nation is considered theft.

I'll be happy to quote you on that one.

 

U.S. has got really bad these days. Russia's just worse.