Legality of Recipes

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by mrarmyant, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. #1
    I've been trying to gather some recipes for a site and have found many bits of conflicting information where nothing is clear. It seems second to grade schools that recipes seem to infringe on copyright and plagiarism the most, and I would like to avoid these legal issues.

    Many sites says ingredients are not copywriteable, but some of the instructions can, but not all are. If it is written in a style or such then it is a copywriteable work, but not if it is a generic instruction. At what point does it cross that line?

    Also many sites are selling PLR information (unfortunately not in a large database like I want) but are there any credentials I should look for to make sure I'm actually getting works that I can't be sued over?
     
    mrarmyant, Sep 25, 2013 IP
  2. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #2
    recipes can be tricky how ever if you took a recipe of the back of a box and sold it as your own you would be able to be sued. I never really seen an issue over someone posting recipes on a website because alot of recipes are similiar and even for the oens who could sue they would ltierally have to prove you used every single ingredient they used.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 7, 2013 IP
  3. mrarmyant

    mrarmyant Greenhorn

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    #3
    I've noticed. I'm trying to buy a large recipe database with ingredients and such as a specific field - which narrows down my choices, and many of the people dont seem to have any idea who owns the rights or what could happen legally.

    From what I read directions and instructions aren't any sort of infringement, but how they write it, their prose, or additions of information, or mentioning it was their grandmothers recipe, is. I don't have time to go through a large database and strip all of that out, might as well transcribe cook books by hand :/
     
    mrarmyant, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  4. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #4

    This is correct information. So, the mere listing of ingredients and measurements is not protected, but the specialized way they might write about it and any additional description or information is protectable. If the database has all extra stuff beyond the mere list of ingredients then those recipes most likely violate someone's copyright.
     
    browntwn, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  5. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #5

    Here is my opinion and I work in law. some where on your website put something like "this is a collection of recipes from different people" and it will most likely cover the use of all of the recipes. it is way to common for someone to have the same recipe so there is not someone going to say "hey thats mine they stole it"
     
    Emberrx, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  6. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #6
    That is simply not an accurate statement of the law. Are you a lawyer?

    The rules come down to this:

    1. It is okay to copy the list of ingredients.

    2. It is not okay to copy creative elements that go beyond just mere ingredients or basic instructions.

    3. If you chose to copy something - make sure you do not copy the protected creative elements of the recipe.

    A disclaimer does not allow you to copy the creative elements.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
    browntwn, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  7. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #7
    Yes actually I am. do you know how many sites have a cumulate list of things from other sources? ESPECIALLY recipe websites/apps? you are incorrect based on the fact that it is very hard to copyright a recipe in the first place because it is very hard to define original ownership or creation of said recipe. Just because I type something out one way ESPECIALLY a recipe does not mean someone does not cook it the exact same way. I see recipes all the time that I see on other apps by other people, So why don't you try taking that to court and see how that fairs for you in the end? Because other then the huge cost of money and time to go to court you will be very disappointed in what happens.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  8. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #8
    Also as I have been APART of this many times. The most that can happen with a disclaimer is they will contact you to take a certain item down IF they have a copyright which is much harder to get nowadays since owner/creation proof is very hard to come by.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  9. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #9
    It is not the list of ingredients or simple cooking instructions that one gets a copyright over. It is the creative elements in many recipes that the author automatically has a copyright over. It is that part that should not be copied.

    As for whether or not someone is going to sue, or succeed in suing, is an entirely different question than if something is legal or not to do.
     
    browntwn, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  10. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #10
    But you are not understanding honey, the elements for a lot of dishes are very similar with each other, also as I stated with the disclaimer they would just ask you to take it down. Plus it is so hard pressed to prove something like that is your own now a days that is why big companies have the same exact recipes on there cans/boxes as they have had for years because its a different time and process. I mean the possibility of getting sued is really really small and with a disclaimer it is even lower.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  11. dscurlock

    dscurlock Prominent Member

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    #11
    may as well just keep it simple:

    If you did not create it, then dont use it.
    If you can not find the owner/source, then dont use it.
    If you cant obtain rights, then dont use it.

    You never know who owns what...It maybe someone that does not
    give a crap, or it could be some business that you are taking
    away profits somehow, and they are willing to drill you into the ground....

    Its really not that complicated at all....
     
    dscurlock, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  12. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #12
    You are free to your opinion, I will rely on my own knowledge and experience and stick with what I have written as I know it is correct.
     
    browntwn, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  13. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #13
    It is not an opinion I have had to sit in on cases such as this. It is part of going to school for it. If you have faced this situationt hen you nor a lawyer did a vey good job or the people scared you out of your rights because I know I am correct. I am not trying to be cocky about it but I have did law for almost 7 years and while I am not in copyright law what so ever I have had to sit in on cases etc.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 10, 2013 IP
  14. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #14
    I've been practicing law a lot longer than seven years and am confident that I am correct.

    I understand you think the chances of lawsuits over recipes is slim, I agree. But what factually that I have said do you take issue with? All I have done here is state the current state of the US law on recipes and what it is legal to copy. As you know, it would be foolish to tell someone that they can simply copy some unknown recipe when you have no idea how much of that recipe is protected creative content and what part is non-copyrightable listing of ingredients or basic cooking instruction. Surely you are not telling someone they can just buy a famous chef's recipe book and post it verbatim online without giving a thought to the copyright ramifications - are you?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
    browntwn, Nov 10, 2013 IP
  15. Emberrx

    Emberrx Member

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    #15

    Actually if I am not mistaking he said he is collecting recipes for a website. as I am sure you know there is a huge difference between selling a dell computer and saying you made it as apposed to selling the exact same type of parts and putting it in a custom case and claiming you made it. thats the same issue here. of course taking a betty crocker cookbook and selling it as your own is illegal. But making a website where it has a ton of collected recipes for free is not especially with a claimer.
     
    Emberrx, Nov 10, 2013 IP
  16. mrarmyant

    mrarmyant Greenhorn

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    #16
    Unfortunately it's hard to buy a database with verified rights, so I will do my best too and also add the disclaimer. I have no issue taking recipes down on a case by case basis.
     
    mrarmyant, Nov 20, 2013 IP