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This one is for new writers out there

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by Kraven2, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. #1
    I've been a member here since 2009 and a writer since 2006. In the past I have posted about this topic before, and judging by the amount of Sharks on the content creation forum lately and the fools who are taking their offers, I feel it is about time I did so again.

    What I refer to as "Sharks" are content buyers feeding on the bottom of the barrel by offering work for pennies on the dollar. Rates like $1 per article, or $ 0.50/100 words are normal to this type of buyer and the one thing they all have in common is that they all are asking for the moon in terms of demands.

    Granted, some things go without saying, like the content should pass Crappyscape(Yes no typo because I think that software is a piece of crap that is so easy to fool it is not even funny). The tool is bad, but the idea is good. Ripping off content is not done no matter how low the price per article. The only true way to get around those low rates is simply not accepting the job. However, other demands like content should be well researched and error free and some there demand Wikipedia type quality, well you get the idea it is simply ridiculous at those rates. It's like expecting a Rolls Royce experience when buying a second hand KIA for $ 300.

    When you have just started out writing, and assuming you have decent writing skills it is hard to find decent paying jobs. I know, when I started back in 2006 I got lucky. I started out using a program called Content Current and that allowed me to build up a reputation based on feedback I got from my work through their service. In fact my very first clients moved away from Content Current when I did ;)

    When I arrived here in 2009 I set my rates at $ 1/100. Not because I wasn't good enough to ask for more, but because I calculated that was what I needed in order to be competitive and keep the writing profitable. From there on it went up as I started attracting a better type of clients(Yes here on DP). Needless to say that the $ 1/100 no longer applied and I made a lot more per article. Depending on the type of assignment up to $ 25 per article(Most of that type of buyers can be found at Constant Content by the way.). Unfortunately a car accident took me out of the picture for a long time and I just started setting up shop again a few months ago. Thanks to what I learned before the accident it did not take me long to get my business back on track and now I am just about completely booked. I could still take on a small client here and there, but I don't have to. I have plenty of long term and returning clients, so all is well. Business is booming ;)

    Now you might ask why I am boring the hell out of you all writing this. Well, I wanted to let you know not to lower your rates below $1/100 words, because if you do, and I have seen this happen to new writers time and time again, you end up in a negative spiral that is almost impossible to get out of. Sure you'll have lots of Sharks for a client and they will keep on coming back, but it is just a matter of time and something will have to give. Either you break down from an insane workload or you can't attract a better type of client because your workload from the Sharks is simply too high and if you drop them they will ruin your reputation(The ones who pay the least always are the loudest).

    So take it from me, don't fall into the low rates trap. If your skills are decent, set a decent rate and don't go below it.

    Good luck!
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
    Kraven2, Jun 4, 2013 IP
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  2. Revelations-Decoder

    Revelations-Decoder Well-Known Member

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    #2
    2006? I bet you did some writing b4 that if you really think about, you can't be that young LOL :)

    What we're you driving when you arrived here btw?

    I used my Dorlean's time machine >

    [​IMG]
     
    Revelations-Decoder, Jun 4, 2013 IP
  3. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #3
    Yes I did some writing before, but a different kind: I wrote PHP, Perl code and managed servers for a large freehost on the web :D


    And me young? I'm 41 close to going 42. Believe it or not, when I arrived here I drove a classic Ford Thunderbird, that one is in car heaven, due to the accident I mentioned, but I managed to obtain one almost identical to the one I had and am driving that now(I just love that type of car) :D
     
    Kraven2, Jun 4, 2013 IP
  4. #4
    Nice to see you are back Kraven and thankfully doing fine after the car crash.

    Actually Digitalpoint is best known out there as the biggest peanut marketplace on the web because anyone seeking to buy something or hire someone is asking for the moon and beyond, but not willing to pay at least the equivalent to the minimum tipping at a restaurant. This wouldn't be a problem at all if other writing gigs and potential clients wouldn't set their rates based on what's published here.

    On the other hand, agree with you when it comes to Crappyscape (excellent rebranding name!) This site sells "authoritative" aura but ruling a plagiarism criteria based on this tool is simply wasting time and money.

    As for the rates, I remember yourself and Jenn Mattern providing us with good advise to setting a decent rate and sticking to it. It's good that you have started this thread because many new members are unaware of all what you're saying and come over here believing that what those marketplace sharks are demanding and offering are "fair" rates and work conditions.
     
    Mystique, Jun 5, 2013 IP
    Kraven2 likes this.
  5. Revelations-Decoder

    Revelations-Decoder Well-Known Member

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    #5
    It always amazes me considering words are the A1 aspect of a website that gets a website found how cheaply writing is regarded, almost like "the least" of considerations for a website, when in fact it is not the case when it comes to getting your websites found and giving the all important aspect "good content".
     
    Revelations-Decoder, Jun 5, 2013 IP
  6. techdomain

    techdomain Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Well said kraven, well said.
     
    techdomain, Jun 12, 2013 IP
  7. rockiesfan24

    rockiesfan24 Active Member

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    #7
    Great post! It is true and I can't fathom only charging .50/100 words
     
    rockiesfan24, Jun 12, 2013 IP
  8. pablo123

    pablo123 Greenhorn

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    #8
    Agree 100%. When I started out many years back, I used to charge $14 for a 500 word article. With rising costs, you would have imagined that the price would have gone up. But just the opposite happened. Sad indeed.
     
    pablo123, Jun 13, 2013 IP
  9. Bill e

    Bill e Peon

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    #9
    Appreciative applause from front row, oops, should I stand?:)

    This was something I needed to absorb, Kraven, never having written an article for money nor fame.
    However I do write, not on paper so much but prodigiously in my mind, having done so since a ''crawler'', it seems.
    With age hovering over middle years, this is an extremely long time.

    Having kicked about the IM realm for quite some time, these rates you speak of still make one wince.
    Word slaves tethered to an endless line of chained pens.

    My want is to write... but where?

    A first posting here at DP, from a green, quivering 'Quill.
    Will look in anticipation to you, Kraven and other member's contributions.
    Waiting to make my own.

    Grand hello to all.

    Bill e

    Humbled, hungry, aspiring 'scribe.
     
    Bill e, Jun 13, 2013 IP
  10. Bison

    Bison Active Member

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    #10
    If you have the ability to connect with readers by using creative language, then you should never lower your rates to slave wage status.

    Everyone of us has stumbled upon articles written in bland, uninteresting styles or broken English and we couldn't hit the back button fast enough.

    If one truly cares about their craft, then one should never settle for less than the value they are creating with their words. Writing is so much more than throwing words onto a page, it is used to paint pictures in peoples mind, to explain mysteries or carry the reader to another world which they couldn't get to on their own, if only for a few moments.

    Create value with your words and then charge people accordingly.
     
    Bison, Jun 17, 2013 IP
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  11. boyuancy

    boyuancy Greenhorn

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    #11
    I consider myself a decent writer, capable of being able to provide quality content and as sad as this is, I actually find it quite funny. Not just here on DP but if you look around on sites like oDesk, this is what happens:

    I see a Job Title like "Need Quality Writers" and browsing through the first few lines of the job description, I'd feel like the employer's requirement for "quality writers" is justified. It would be for a niche like autism or something as serious as that.

    I click on the job and as I read to the last line, my eyes search for numbers. Sadly, when I do find them, it'd be something like "The rate is $1 per 500 words". :eek:

    At first, I'd get pissed off at this but slowly, I have grown used to it. So the first thing that I do when I read a job description is search for the rate per article.

    Thanks to this, I haven't written anything for a while now and I feel like I'm out of practice. Not that someone like me would make a huge difference, but the market is losing quality writers everyday.
     
    boyuancy, Jun 17, 2013 IP
  12. Bill e

    Bill e Peon

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    #12
    Supply and demand etching a deep crevasse; separating a writer's will from a whimpering wallet.

    Sad to read.

    Bill e

    Humbl'd, hungry, aspiring 'scribe.
     
    Bill e, Jun 17, 2013 IP
  13. Words For You

    Words For You Well-Known Member

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    #13
    I have to agree with you Kraven. New writers are usually not that good at creating quality content. The one's that are actually passionate and have a tendency to move forward, they eventually give up because of the "low rates" going on in the market. Even i had to face this issue several times.
     
    Words For You, Jun 17, 2013 IP
  14. cjp214

    cjp214 Member

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    #14
    @Kraven2,

    I didn't think your story was boring at all. Actually, I found it quite interesting as there are plenty of people out there who seem entirely unable to analyze their actions (successes and mistakes) in an objective way.

    Another thing about writers willing to work for such low rates. Because they're in such a rush to finish their article and move on to the next one to make ends meet, they have a hard time improving as a writer. And why would they, when they are forced to spew out an endless series of bland articles? There's no motivation to improve or challenge yourself as a writer.

    If you're worth it, charge it. The best clients - the most professional, well-paying ones who are a pleasure to work with - recognize that.

    -Corey
     
    cjp214, Jun 17, 2013 IP
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  15. Waqas_Rasheed

    Waqas_Rasheed Greenhorn

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    #15
    STOP...STOP...STOP...
    MY MIND is Gone after Reading This...:eek:
    [​IMG]
     
    Waqas_Rasheed, Jun 17, 2013 IP
  16. TPvinod

    TPvinod Active Member

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    #16

    Hey Kraven,

    I've been a writer (with a team) since 2009 and I'm making a substantial income just by writing articles for the web. Been able to make around 1500 to 2500$ per month and that's more than a handy income given the fact that I'm located here in India.

    And as you rightly said, the competition is growing day by day. I still charge a minimum of $1/100 words but I have now low success rates, thanks to the writers charging $0.5/100 words or even less, who are the ones winning more projects!

    What advice or tip do you have for me to gain more projects without reducing the rates? How can I be more successful?

    Your reply could be of great help to me!

    Cheers!
     
    TPvinod, Jun 26, 2013 IP
  17. Alyssa Lochmore

    Alyssa Lochmore Member

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    #17
    I can understand the plight of lower-paying clients. For some reason they really do expect too much--even higher expectations of the higher-paying buyers. I don't know why that is, but maybe it has to do with a client trying to take advantage of a desperate person. That desperate person gets overworked and is never able to get out of the poverty trap. We all have to believe we are worth something in this freelance world. Otherwise, we will never make enough money to even eat.
     
    Alyssa Lochmore, Jun 26, 2013 IP
  18. TPvinod

    TPvinod Active Member

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    #18
    Rightly said Alyssa. As a writer, we must also ensure we don't get into the trap by overworking for a low paying client. That takes away all energy a writer has and when the writer, at the end of the month, realizes the meager amount of money he/she was able to make, he would not feel great about it. We need to set ourselves a reasonable fee per 100 words of writing and never go below that even if we don't get assignments (unless the writer runs too low in income and desperate)
     
    TPvinod, Jun 26, 2013 IP
  19. PR300

    PR300 Member

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    #19
    Well, as the saying goes, "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys".
    For me the best writers are also the best researchers - a great writer takes the trouble to really understand the topic before putting pen to paper/fingers to keyboard.
     
    PR300, Jun 26, 2013 IP
  20. algernon99

    algernon99 Greenhorn

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    #20
    I started writing about computers in computer magazines in the early 90s--before there was anything like today's Web. (In fact, I once wrote a little inset pamphlet of 18 pages for Compute Magazine that explained what this new-fangled thing called the Internet was and how it worked.

    I made $1250 for the first article I sold--and never made that much again on anything. However, I never wrote for less than a dime a word.

    The prices you are talking about now make me glad that I'm not trying to make a living writing for the Web. Those rates are appalling.

    Rich
     
    algernon99, Jun 27, 2013 IP