Same sex Marriage

Earl, you're ridiculous.. If you met a pedophile that "was a nice person", would you agree with that too?

Let's just forget the marriage debate all together and just say any two things (living or not living) can be joined to share all equal protection for income tax treatment, estate tax benefits, medical benefits and other favored status that many of us take for granted and then wouldn’t that ensure the continued evolution of civil liberty forever.

 

Yet the "creepy liberals" are leading this debate. . . As if they are a voice of reason anything.

The same party that was leading the Sandra Fluke debate (joke) a few months ago.

 

And yet, according to your own words, at every date 2004 and prior, your marriage act was only applicable to a union of a man and a woman. John Howard simply put the unsaid fact into print.

 

Best analysis of the situation I've seen.

Referring to hetero parents being more healthy then same-sex parents:

If you are looking for a quick, fast internet reference I'm sorry but I can't provide you with one. This is an extremely complex topic and if you sincerely want to understand it, do your own research. But gender relationships is the very basis of Behavioral Psychology: parents shape who we are and our gender relationships are based upon our parental relationships. My references include the book "Abnormal Psychology" by Goldstein, Baker, and Jamison. You can also investigate Jungian psychology which has it's foundation in parental relationships.

But basically, if you are someone that has undergone a phase in your life where you've been introspective into your own psychology, you are going to have to look at your relationship with your parents to see how that affects your relationships.

In the 1980's I worked as a crisis hotline worker in college. We were taught to ask about parental relationships. It was rare, but we occasionally got calls from people with same-sex parents (how that happened in the 80's I didn't always know, but we never asked because that could be seen as a judgmental question and we did not ask those). Children raised by same-sex parents always had relationship issues with the missing gender.

I noticed that in college guys who got laid had warm, healthy relationship with their mothers. Guys who formed good friendships with other guys had close relationships with their fathers. Guys who couldn't get a date had cold, distant relationships with their mothers. It's an axiom that strippers have abusive relationships with their fathers and so end up with abusive boyfriends; they desperately seek real father figures and practically beg to have their buttons pushed (that's another story.. ).

Teenage girls get their moral values from their fathers, and their compassion from their mothers. It's manipulative, I know, but I used to ask girls about their relationship with their father and then mimic that relationship if I wanted to get laid. This one girl her Dad only drank Michelob and so I only drank Michelob with her. When I wanted to break up with her I ordered a Molson. You should have seen her face drop!

You don't have to believe me, test it, test it out yourself if you want to take this from a forum discussion to real knowledge about people.

 

It would be interesting to be able to read from adults who grew up in "gay households" and how 30 years later they view their upbringing and what sort of effect it had on them.

 

Wow:

per GR:

I suspect both Dick Cheney, and Senator Rob Portman would find this statement to be ignorant, harmful, and above all insulting to their kids and their families.

Portman's son came out publicly announcing he was gay, and Portman recently came out in favor of Gay marriage. Cheney's gay daughter is married.

Both parents fully support and love their kids.

I am sure both families would be horrified and disgusted to see somebody who seems to be espousing Conservative philosophy make a statement that equates both kids of these significant Conservative voices as evil predators.


As I mentioned above, my views evolved over time. People are people. I certainly have no problems with gays, don't see them as evil, interact with them, respect those who merit respect, treat them as equals and like the Cheney's and Portmans would never equate a Gay person with a pedophile.

....and that sick perspective of hatred fear and prejudice is another reason to support Gay marriage.

Ugly hate filled fear and prejudice just labeled Cheney's Gay daughter who works for the GOP and Portman's son as equivalent to a predator pedaphile.

 

so corwin: you have NO DATA but you claimed it as a fact. You give us your opinion. Lets see, in the past your opinion included claims that you were both a salesguy into the auto industry and a scientist. You also claimed you were living in Long Island and under the anonymity of a web forum ranted against giving aid to the folks of Long Island who suffered under the same kind of destruction of weather that devastated New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.

I'm sure the family of Dick Cheney and Rob Portman would find your comments insulting to the health of their kids and how society will treat them into the future.

 

I don't know enough about the subject to comment knowledgeably, but it makes sense in principle. I guess where logic runs contrary to such an understanding is when straight couples produce gay offspring, which is most cases. It would seem to me that gender relationships learned from the parents would cause gay parents to raise gay children and straight parents to raise straight children, and it simply isn't the case.

Again, believable, but anecdotal. What I would be more interested in seeing is incidence of relationship issues among children of gay couples vs incidence of relationship issues among children of straight couples, which I think would be much more meaningful.

A subject after my own heart. The adage, "All girls marry their father, and all men marry their mother" has been with us for a very very long time. Who do children of the same sex as their same sex parents seek out? I don't know, and perhaps there just isn't enough data out there to actually put together an unbiased and scientific study.

I'm no psychologist, but I have my own experiences in dealing with people, and I can attest to the fact that much of what you are saying is accurate from my anecdotal experience. I still don't see our anecdotal experiences as being predictive of the psychological outcome of children raised with gay parents.

 

Clap clap to those 2 for accepting them, yay. . . Basis enough to wipe out our founding principles!

Liberals love to think they are inventing new ways of thinking, views on life and how we should live. I happen to think the basis behind the statement of "my views evolved over time" is pretty retarded and comical.

So, I'm sick to think the Liberal view life on "if it feels good, go with/for it". . .? W. O. W., right back atcha.

 

Clap, clap for you for being mentally dead and not evolving over time.

 

No. I shared my experiences and referenced a textbook. You are free to accept or reject as you wish. I did cite a textbook as a reference as well as Jung. Are you able to read anything that is not a hyperlink, like a book? Or do you need your data spoonfed to you like a child in a highchair?

Are you sincerely interested in the topic of this discussion or is gay marriage just a game to you?

Look, if you are someone that feels that if it's not on the internet then it doesn't exist, then experiences do not matter to you. But I did accept your experiences in real estate and learned from them.

The point here is that I am sincerely interested in the welfare of the child and am willing to read up as well as share my experiences. But to you, Earl, the child is only a piece of property, like a television, and is only a forum debating point.

 

Actually you just dropped a name to pretend you know what you are talking about. What you try to describe is Freud and not Jung.

 

Care to explain that?

 

Corwin:

Here is your claim from post #68:

Now you tell us you have NO FACTS. You don't have research. You don't have references.

Why don't you pull the specific language from AMA, etc that a child's psychological well-being is best served by parents one male one female.

guess you can't find it.

Once again your claims are way over the top and completely false.

 

Its basically described as thinking and learning. I know it scares you. If you ever give it a try why don't you ask o-nation to hold your hand, hug you, and give you support.

 

Found this interesting:


http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006_docs/Francesummary.pdf

 

That's hardly what it is, but keep telling yourself that.

The last thing we need us for liberals to be sitting around "thinking" up ways for us to continue on and better ourselves as a society. ;-)

 

Earlpearl:

In light of the fact that every psychological literature states that a child develops bonding patterns through a relationship with a female and a male parent, which impacts their future same sex friendships and relationships and marriage, the burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that a homosexual union is capable of substituting the needs provided in a traditional marriage.

 

This is the classic social experimentation argument. I especially appreciated the quote you provided from Quebec's recommendations on the matter. It was well thought out and made good arguments regarding what we know, and also the unknown consequences of child rearing in the age of test tube babies, surrogate mothers, and gay adoption.

I agree that the burden of proof is on the proponents of gay marriage to prove that these new concepts of family are not damaging to the children they would raise. There is, however, something overlooked in this hypercritical look at the evolution of procreation.

I'm talking about the foster care system. Right now, in the US, kids dumped into the foster care system have a very high probability of becoming criminals at some point in their life. They are treated like criminals for their entire childhood, as they are technically wards of the state. Bars on the windows, dormitory style housing, and a k-12 education that does little more than baby sitting. They are essentially screwed from birth.

I find it nearly impossible to believe that the future of any of those children would be worse if adopted into a home of any financially stable individual or couple, regardless of sexual orientation. Will they do as well as a child adopted by a heterosexual couple with loving parents of each gender? Perhaps/probably not. Given the alternative, I'm not sure it matters.

 

LOL. Did you look at the report? Do you know that even the president of the commission doesn´t agree with it?