Should all drugs be legalized?

I may be wrong, and I really haven't researched it, but I am under the impression the "hardcore" drugs are way more dangerous and have more severe, and often more quickly experienced, side effects. The drugs that addict people quickly and make it almost impossible to kick without professional help. Alcohol and others cause addiction like this as well, but not nearly as fast. It is no question that drugs will never go away. They keep finding new ones. As long as there is money to be made dealers will continue to provide them. It really just comes down to why people want to do drugs, especially the ones that can kill you so quickly. Solving that is the only way to solve drug problems.

 

Cars serve as transportation method, TV/VG serve as entertainment and educational medium. Drugs do not serve any purpose that could be helpful.

Yes, life is full of risk, we do not need to add additional more stupider risks in it. Teenager often display poor judgment. I don't think legalizing heroin and cocaine is in their best interest..

No, I don't think we should jail addicts. They need help. But I'm more than happy when they throw a drug peddler in the jail. Yes alcohol and nicotine are addictive and could potentially kill, drugs like Heroin are worse. A slight overdose can easily kill anyone.

 

Could drugs not serve as entertainment? I could sit here and come up with a use for everything you name off. That logic really doesn't hold water. The problem with the "need" logic is that there is never an end. Who are you, me, or the government to say what someone needs or should want?

 

Drugs serve no purpose that could be helpful? You should explain that to Merck and McKesson. I could easily argue that TV serves no useful purpose. Not sure what it has to do with the merits of making TV legal or illegal.

So if you are the teenagers parent, you can decide what is or is not in their best interest. Just make sure you aren't telling me what my teenager's best interests are, because that sounds like exactly what you are doing.

Yet we do jail addicts. And first time users. And first time buyers. Are you saying you would support legalizing all drug use and purchasing? If so, I think you have turned the bend.

For every drug dealer they send to jail, another 20 appear to move the product. Drug sales are profitable and poor people need money. You know why drug sales are profitable? Because they are illegal and therefore not readily available. It is what keeps Mexican drug cartels in money and Taliban warlords in tent covered wives. Replacing the money we spend on fighting drugs with money spent on offering cheap drugs in exchange for counselling and treatment would do wonders for our country, not to mention force the Mexicans and Afghanis to find a new line of work.

Who cares? Skydiving can easily kill anyone the first time. Bungee jumping can easily kill you the first time. You can't protect people from themselves by throwing them in prison, or we will wind up with more people in prison than out.

 

Nope they don't, not in the context of this thread..

Honestly, I don't care for your teenager's welfare. That's your job. I care for my daughter, and that is the reason I don't want drugs like heroin or cocaine to be legalized. I'm all for legalizing Marijuana though.

I dont support jailing addicts. Although they are utter idiots, they need help. Jailing them doesn't do any good. And no, I will not support legalizing drugs purchase or use.

Then throw those 20 in the jail, if 200 emerge to take their place, throw them too. Best solution, execute them like China does. They are one of the lowest scum on earth, narrowly beaten by rapists and pedophiles.

 

The minute you involve laws, you are deciding what is best for my teen. As I said previously, if you want to punish your kid for doing drugs, have at it. If you want to execute your kids for doing drugs like china does, have at it, though there are laws against that in the US, not so sure about India.

The minute you say "drug use should be illegal", you are telling me how to run my life and raise my kids, because if I/we don't do things your way, we get the government beating down our door. Do you understand your last post promoted two entirely different and contradictory positions on this issue?

Again, a contradictory position. You don't support jailing users but you do not support use being legal, ergo users get jail for breaking the law.

So many flaws with this statement. First, for every 20 you catch, there were another 200 you didn't. Second, doesn't the penalty of death for practicing free market capitalism seem better placed in Saudi Arabia, the USSR, or some other oppressive or Islamist regime? Why on earth would anyone praise such a government? Lastly, drug peddlers and users exist at every strata of society in both legal and illegal forms. If it isn't the smack dealer down the street beating his girlfriend then it is the privileged college kid slinging Coke and Ecstasy to a never ending stream of customers at the best schools in the country. Some of the biggest drug dealers and abusers on the planet are doctors, with products produced by big pharma. If you really wanted to and could actually successfully execute all these people(users and pushers), I strongly suspect you would wipe out half the US population, and I doubt India is much different. I can't think of anything more anti-democratic and downright genocidal.

Funny, I always thought oppressive dictators, murderers, and fascists topped that list. Drug dealers and drug users are my neighbors (and yours).

 

I can't be kidding when virtually every medical study ever produced by man has said the same thing. Research does wonders my friend....try it.

 

Some people abuse drugs/alcohol because they are unhappy. Taking these does produce a euphoria for a few brief hours, then it all wears off and it's back to the stress and misery. Drugs rob a person of their spirit and character. That's why the governments which are by the people, for the people, ban them.
Religion is also a crutch, can produce some measure of happiness also. But which has caused more misery? Open up a history book and the answer is clear. They ought to make religion illegal.

 

I did extensive research on marijuana, and concluded that studies have not produced sufficient evidence that marijuana causes any kind of severe long term effects. Even if some existed, how are they any worse than alcohol? It is complete nonsense that someone could believe alcohol should be legal but not marijuana.

So, based on your last statement, you only believe things that you disagree with should be illegal? You seem to have no understanding of why people choose to believe in a religion, nor do you have any clue about individual freedoms.

 

Some governments that are for the people, of the people and by the people support honor killings, racial hatred, genocide, and the death penalty for homosexuality. The wisdom of a mob is not exactly the best way to set your moral compass.

If banning activities that rob people of their spirit and character should be made illegal, we would have to ban working at McDonalds and marriage. Besides, without drugs to make other people more interesting, some people would never get laid.

 

Hmm, interesting... So you don't like laws that interferes with how you wish to raise your kids. Let me ask, do you have problems with laws making underage drinking illegal, or underage sex or underage driving? Because those laws definitely tell you how to raise your kids..

In India, we do not jail users, we fine them and we suggest they go to rehab. Repeated offenders are sent to rehab. And of course cannabis isn't illegal here. Only people caught with drugs over defined personal usage limit i.e. falling into seller category are jailed. Actually I'm pretty happy with the way India deals with drugs. Although the law enforcement is not upto the mark, so that is a problem. Even if you are caught with 1 pound of heroin, chances are you can just bribe the cops and get away with it..

Yes, of course the free market capitalism, hey why not? Nothing is better than a population on acid trip!!
Lets open shops and sell coke and smack to everyone who wishes!!

Actually, excuse me, but that doesn't sound half bad as long as they regulate it better than Alcohol and ensure that no teenager gets his hands on them. What an adult wishes to do with his life is hardly my concern.

 

Underage sex? Yes I oppose the existence of such laws. Most kids lose their virginity around 16, though many kids experiment the minute they hit puberty. Not the way I would raise my kids, but making them criminals is idiotic. Laws dealing with predatory behavior by adults on children, or human trafficking are a different story.

Underage drinking? Yes I oppose those laws too. Kids join the armed forces at age 18, operate multi-million dollar pieces of equipment and take human lives, yet cant buy a drink? It is just stupid. Drinking under age 18 is harmful to a developing teen, so I don't support the activity, but would still not make criminals of these children.

Underage driving? Driving laws apply to what you do on the public highway. If you have a couple acre farm, you can let your two year old drive and it is perfectly legal. I would be more than fine with letting a 12 year old drive on the highway, assuming they could pass the tests to get a license, but I'm not the guy who sets the public safety regulations. Not sure what this one has to do with the criminality of drug use.

Those all sound like much more reasonable policies than the ones we practice here in the US. Mere possession of any controlled substance can land you in jail. Possession of a slightly larger amount, but still very little, can land you in jail as a dealer with intent to distribute.

So given the corruption of your law enforcement, the cops are in a position to decide who is a criminal and who is not with some degree of impunity. Its a great argument for taking subjectivity out of the laws and legalizing ALL drug possession.

Yes, that argument has been made many times over. I have yet to see any study from places that have legalized drugs, including Amsterdamn and Portugal, that support the idea that legal drugs create a population of zombies.

Now you are talking. Lets tack on a socialist twist to your idea. Have the government sell the drugs at unreasonably low prices, requiring rehabilitation to receive government benefits. The goal would be to make it cheap enough and available enough and non-intrusive enough to eliminate 80% of the customers who currently fund the drug cartels of Mexico and Afghanistan. I'd like us to quit buying their drugs nearly as much as I'd like to quit buying oil from terror states.

 

So do you actually believe there shouldn't be a limit set by law for driving, drinking or sex? Would it make a better society where a 9 year old walks to a liquor store and buys booze? Should it be okay if a 14 year old is attracted to her/his 25 year old teacher and wants to have sex with him/her? Should these be just left to morals of people and how parents wish to raise their children? If you believe so, then you and I are not going to agree anyway.

I'd definitely agree on changing the policies then. As I said earlier, users should not be jailed, it should be decriminalized. Doesn't mean that the sells should go unchecked.

So there is a line where I guess we agree, decriminalize the use, selling to kids/teenagers stays illegal, and may be regulated sells to adult (although, I have no idea what good it would do)..

Nope, judiciary decides who is a criminal and who is not. Cops merely decide who to arrest. And as far as corruption goes, it is not exclusive to any country. But it is not an argument to support legalizing drugs. If you think that way then it is an argument for abolishing law and establish anarchy. Speaking of which, would I be wrong if I tend to believe that you are an anarchist or at least admire it?

Not sure how do you imply it, but afaik neither Netherlands nor Portugal has legalized drugs, they just decriminalized the personal usage. Also, in Netherlands you can only get away with Weed or Hash. However, possession is still a misdemeanor though.

Even in India, production and sells of cannabis is regulated by government. You will not get arrested or even fined if you are sitting with your friends smoking it, backing brownies, or just drinking Bhang ( a cannabis drink, extremely popular around these parts). You may get fined if you get caught traveling with a pocketful of weed, but most likely police will let you go. Get caught with a bagful, that's a different story. It will be confiscated, you will have to pay a hefty fine, upon failing to pay the fine on spot, you will land in jail.

Yeah, It makes sense.. It's just like prohibition of alcohol that only helped organized crime grow stronger.
But it will not work.. I'll tell you why..

Even if government legalize the sell of drugs, it will have to be regulated. And before legalizing they will have extensive testing of drugs and related paperwork and stuffs. Now what happens if a new drug's been invented? People don't know the side effects, they just know that it gives them a better 'kick'. Would government let it be sold in shops? Nope, they will go through the same hoops of testing, paperwork, then more testing and more paperwork. Meanwhile, the same cartels will be pushing the drugs on the street and making money as usual.

And instead of regulating the sale, if you leave the market open FFA then ha ha ha ha good luck!!

 

These are all straw men. Driving, for instance, is a public safety issue, just like flying a plane. We have laws that regulate age, driving under the influence, penalties for unsafe driving etc. These laws speak not at all to what one does in the privacy of their own home, or what circulates their blood while minding their own business in public.

I also have no problem with an 18 year old age limit for the legal purchase of booze or hard drugs. 18 is old enough to die for your country, its old enough to make decisions about getting high. As far as I know, possession/intoxication at an age under 18 is not a criminal offense, only the sale to a minor. If it is a criminal offense, I would be opposed to that law. Regarding adults having sex with children, I already covered my support for laws against such behavior. Go back and read it again.

What good it would do is emptying our prisons of drug users and drug salesmen. It would decrease the workload of border patrol looking for narcotrafficers, letting them focus on busting terrorists. It would let druggies move from criminal status to medical status, allowing us to spend the money we would spend incarcerating them treating their addiction.

Officers discretion. Are you a dealer, or are you a user who bought for his friends? At that point, the officer is the judge and jury. When you start looking at drugs in the same way you look at alcohol, it changes that formula and, in my opinion, takes a lot of that discretion out of the officers hands.

Funny, I used to consider myself an anarchist. I'm an old guy with kids now, and a huge fan of law and order, but given my past, also a huge fan of personal liberty. This is what makes me a Republican rather than a brown shirted fascist of a Democrat. Those people have a law for everything they see as a threat to the government, a threat to society, a threat to the gay baby whales, and a threat to ones own self. There is no perceived problem that cannot be solved with some new legislation, civil rights be damned.

You should actually go visit the Netherlands. I'd recommend Cafe Smokey on the south side of Rembrandt square, where you can get yourself an ice cold Amstel or Heineken, and a cigarette rolled entirely of the marijuana of your choice, or perhaps a tobacco cigarette laced with hash. If Smokey's isn't for you, you can visit one of the hundreds of other coffee shops around the city. It is as legal as legal gets.

Perhaps you are referring to the hard drugs sold on the street (Coke, Heroin, etc) which are not legally sold in the coffee shops but not criminal to possess. I'm not sure of the specifics of Portugal's laws, but in either event, they decriminalized the drugs and society didn't disintegrate. In fact, the Netherlands ranks 8th on Legatum prosperity index by country, and fourth on the social mobility index, ahead of the US. If putting people in jail for drug possession correlated with success, prosperity, or social mobility, certainly you would see the Netherlands ranked down there with Nigeria.

Pay a fine on the spot? Where I come from, that is called a bribe. I've been around S.E. Asia a bit, and in all of those countries, getting caught with any amount can land you in jail. Singapore has very specific advertising printed on their customs forms, informing tourists as they enter that the penalty for drug possession is death. Big bold print.

I was never against regulation.

Thats fine. It is why I used the number 80%, not 100%. There will always be non-authorized sales, and drugs that are simply too dangerous to be sold by the government. The goal of such legalization would be to eliminate the lions share of the market (and the lions share of the profit). Those looking for the next best thing should still not be treated as criminals.

 

Not against what I'm saying.. 18 year old is legally adult. I'm against allowing minors to have access..

Decriminalizing the usage is a must do.. Selling drugs is not. Even if it is to be legalized, selling drugs without permit will remain a crime.

Officer's discretion, where is it not? When it is not for drugs, it is for something else.. When a bunch of police officers decide to open fire on an unarmed civilian, they not only act as Judge and Jury, but as an executioner as well. purely based on an officer's discretion, you may get shot for something as puny as shoplifting. So what is the point?

I'd been to Netherlands, as well as most of the Europe. You are saying exact the same thing that I said. They have decriminalized the usage. Granted acceptance of marijuana in life style is there, but it is not legal by definition. Police just turns a blind eye. Legally, possession of even marijuana is still a misdemeanor.

I know the difference between bribe and fine. Not sure where you come from, but I'm pretty sure no-one else from any other part of world would mistake fine, which is a legal punishment, with bribe, which is illegal. Bribe gets into the pocket of officers, fine goes into government treasury. Officers issue you the ticket, you pay the fine and go home. If you feel that you've been fined wrongly, you can dispute the ticket and if the court rules in your favor, you get refund. I would say, works better than landing into jail.

Also, I wasn't talking about S.E. Asia in general, I was talking about India in particular. In India, raw cannabis and hash are acceptable, only getting caught with a large quantity will get you in trouble. Around this time of year, when Kumbh fare is going on, Hindu pilgrimage sites on the bank of Ganges is a heaven for junkies. Cannabis and it's by-products are available in abundance and really cheap. But ofcourse being it India, you gotta be careful what you buy because there are plenty of thugs selling regular weed in the name of ganja..


Anyway, I see your point of view though... The current laws in the US are little too rigid on drugs and should change. Decriminalizing usage of drugs would be a start, it will get rid of a vast prison population.
legalizing weed/hash should follow course. Legalizing hard drugs is an interesting point of view. It may work. However, I have a feeling that Guns+Religion+LSD could be a lethal combo, but that's just me..

 

You are right, of course. My point is to take subjectivity out of laws, as much as possible. Error on the side of rights of the citizen.

Shooting someone for shoplifting in this country will definitely generate some outcry, though the level to which our population has been desensitized to the trampling of civil rights via shows like "To Catch a Predator", "Lockup Raw", and "Cops" is stunning. These days, the cops have to do something REALLY REALLY egregious to generate outrage.

In my neck of the woods, six cops beat a mentally handicapped guy to death while being video taped. People got pissed off enough to march in the streets. Finally, after 6 months, the district attorney filed charges against two of the six officers involved in the beating, one of whom might actually see a day in jail. It is a travesty.

At this very moment we have an Ex-Cop on the loose in L.A. who is targeting police officers and their families. He wrote a long winded manifesto describing corruption in the LAPD. He put together media packages and sent them to all the major media outlets, spelling out his case. He reported a fellow officer for kicking the crap out of a mentally handicapped guy, and not only did the guy he reported not get fired, they fired him for making a false report. He spent the last three years trying to appeal his job loss, and when all avenues failed, he snapped. One part of his manifesto describes how some of the officers involved in the Rodney King beating, which set off all those riots, has now risen to the top of the department.

This is simply not the case. All those coffee shops are in the business of open possession and sales of marijuana and marijuana products.

Every place I've ever been, handing cash to an officer is considered a bribe. If your law puts officers in a position to accept cash as a payment of a fine, I'd say you have put your officers in a perfect position to line their pockets with bribes. Hell, most businesses that have cashiers accepting cash try and centralize/eliminate that job position to prevent loss due to theft. Human nature is human nature.

Perhaps so. All I know is, what we are doing isn't working.

 

I don't think so it will a good idea, that all drug should legalized.
What i believe is, it can cause harm to society, because after having this kinds of thing hardly someone can control himself or herself.

 

The money saved on useless drug war should go to better school education. It'll make the world a much better place....

 

What a lame excuse.. If someone commits a crime, drug or no drug, he should be executed, end of story, it's not like human population was not growing like crazy and that we should keep even criminals alive..

 

I don't need to kid myself as so many studies have said that it isn't harmful. If you are talking about such things as "too much" of course too much marijuana is going to hurt you in the same manner too much sugar is going to give you diabetes and kill you. Too much of anything is a bad thing. I think the government has been telling us for decades that these things are terrible and now it's taking a very long time to get out there and say...well....not really...not more than anything else you already use in moderation as it is currently. It's going to take a long time to get rid of the stigma but once we do the positive effects will be seen. Did you know that Colorado's legalizing of Marijuana is already having a crippling effect on the Cartels in Mexico? I didn't until the other day either.