How To Achieve 15K-20K+/Month - WITHOUT The MMO Niche - Proof Inside.

Hi guys,

I haven't been here in a while, swore I wouldn't come back, but what do you know sometimes your roots call on you. Seeing so many threads and not much room to throw in my .02 because I've grown to a new level, I figured I'm going to come back with a bang and help out a few people here that deserve it most.

At my forum, we post screenshots of our earnings, and the players are big enough to recognize that there is no faked BS or incentive as I loathe the MMO niche or marketing to marketers. Anyway, as I was taking a screen cap I figured "hmmm DP would probably trip over this, they get 4 pages worth of posts when someone makes their first $100"... so here I am, you guys get to see this first even before my own community (though many of them are here too - hey boyz).

So here you have it: My last 45 days with my public accounts that are tied into my master:



So - what the hell is going on above?

And more importantly - how the hell am I doing it???!

I know, most of you are lit right now - the other half think it's 'gotta be faked' and a few people may just do some research on me/this/etc. and finally think 'whoa, this shit is real, k let's read what he has to say with at least some detail'.

I don't haz an agenda, there is nothing to buy from me, I don't sell marketing courses, I don't do the double duty thing, if anything I might get some good affiliates to my products from this thread.. . .. . but I figured I have ragged on DP quite a lot over the years as it turned into what it is today, so I'm going to spend some time and answer questions that are worth answering and at least at the intermediate level (FOR VENDORS OR SOON TO BE VENDORS).

Ok - so back to the above:

It's a mix of all my products, followed by the next payout periods (some have thresholds, some are old...). Even where the zero's are, some months there's a few K among them some months they go dry. MOST are vendor accounts with products that are tested well and conversion mastered before touching affiliates or any recruitment goes in (IMPORTANT!).

Not all are at the same point in their lifecycle, and as you can see there are a few leaders plus a ton of smaller accounts that all add up, but without the few heavy hitters things would be different for sure. I stumbled my way through servicing clients as a rich media producer/designer for a decade before I found these online biz models and dropped servicing for good. Then I stumbled my way through the MMO and Forex niches for a lil' while hitting patches of success but not really enjoying what I was doing. Now I run a very successful hybrid business and love every second of it, every day still brings new challenges and every dollar is hard earned (err smart earned I guess/leverage). My affiliates are happy and consistent, I stopped whoring my talents to big tier-1's for pennies on the dollar and now value myself and my talents a lot more, thus the rewards are much greater.

Some of the accounts above I have totally given up on, just literally automated income from past efforts (old SEO campaigns, some products that aff's still push but I don't support, etc.). Even above and beyond those numbers, there's still more from other sources, from shared accounts with partners, I get PayPal'd money randomly, I get checks from companies from stuff that I have no idea what I did/where the campaign is, don't recognize the payer/company that's paying me. ...lol. .. .I'm not saying all this to boast, but to show it's possible and if you position yourself just right (in the middle of success, literally), you stand to collect from any source you build once you get good at building paths and funnels to profit.

So go ahead - this will be a one time ask all tell almost all with me here for a few days and I'll drop in and answer stuff with some depth for you from an experienced Premier vendor.

Again all I ask is no noob questions. You should be able to figure out what product line I run along with a bit more about me if you'd like to quantify the above or have doubts.

Noticing I have 1,773 posts I guess I owe it to myself to at least give back a bit more before I jet for good...

So - what ask you?

 

The MMO niche is bad and has too many refund rate. Most of the returns are due to other Internet Marketers buying the guides and they are just looking for quick info plus they know that they can refund for money.

 

I have been making sales as an affiliate pretty easily as long as I stay focused. But I want to bump up my earnings so I started a few products and became a vendor. I have been making sales with it but only by myself. I'll have like 30-50 affiliates sending traffic but nothing from them converts not even a order form impression and between 100 and 500 visitors a day. How do you attract "quality" affiliates? My products are good quality with no refunds at all. What are some key points that you noticed on getting quality affiliates jumping on? Thanks

 

In point form for you:

* Your product is not maximized yet. YOU know how to convert it, but that doesn't mean it's conversion mastered. 30-50 aff's sending real traffic would indeed convert to sales even if just a few.

How do you conversion master?

* I'll assume since they were your first few, you probably put in a lot of work on them but you didn't do more than one or two drafts, didn't try more than one or two price points, copy changes, graphics, split tests, branding treatments, adding value/bonuses, etc. etc. and then test it all yourself BEFORE recruiting.

* You put up a first draft, you get some sales, but your gravity doesn't rise, affiliates trickle in, test your product, trickle out, you have no retention.

* Go back a few steps, revise and split test your pages more until you have better conversions, trust me even a blind affiliate should be able to take your aff materials and convert without having to learn the niche, and if you can't it means there is still room to improve. Don't disregard upsells/backend/collecting buyer data/monetizing as much as you can in your funnel both on the spot and post purchase.

* This isn't a mathematical equation nor is there a sequence to 'guarantee' any particular outcome unfortunately, it's literally 'all testing' until you are maximized, and you recruit only once you are maximized. If you can't get it to be maximized DO NOT MOVE FORWARD, DO NOT RECRUIT.

You'll only hurt your efforts, LEAVE THE PROJECT OR SELL IT. Use your time wisely as that's your most powerful asset. Don't ever by shy to say "This isn't working, NEXT!" and leave it alone. Even the best vendors don't hit a homerun every time because there is ALWAYS variable change in our offers, competitors, algo's, eco-systems we play in, customer trends, etc. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, NOTHING, EXCEPT CHANGE!

* Once you are maximized, you won't really have to do much recruiting, simply keep converting on your own, you'll notice those 30-50 people start to flip their campaigns on auto-pilot without your input.

Once that happens you KNOW you have a winner and THEN should get at least 20 or so sales from you/them and show that proof here/other forums showing potential 'quality affiliates' that you understand testing/conversion mastering/and have proven demand and conversions without a doubt.

Having a blueprint in place documenting HOW you got your 20 sales, WHAT campaigns worked, what to stay away from, REAL converting keys/ads, etc.

* NO GOOD AFFILIATES WILL EVER TEST THE PRODUCT FOR YOU. Only the noobs that try anything new that pops off on the marketplace, and they don't know any better. Good vendors NEVER rely on "HI GUYS, MY NEW EBOOKZ IZ READY, COME PROMOTE ME AND SEE YOU MIGHT MAKE MONEY, I HAVEN'T BUT YOU MIGHT!".

Personally that's my pet peeve (above and beyond people trying to launch 'cure breast cancer' or other fucked morally bottoming out products, who also don't test)...

Hope that helps you shape your operation a bit more and prepare a bit more for your next attempt/product.

 

It is so difficult to start my own ClickBank product. I think I need someone with a huge opt-in list to promote so it will really help get the first few sales going.

 

With that kind of mindset, yep you're absolutely right. No you don't need a big list, and those without lists still can make it huge (I actually don't make a penny from email marketing).

 

Can you answer one question that just freaks me out? I asked you once in the private massages how to take a campeign that makes few sales a months and turn it into something big. You pointed me to the niche choppers forum which helpful but I still couldn't find my answer. Could you or someone expirienced as you just give to the struggling, smaill income affiliates with potential some guide to scaling up? I mean something detailed because "find ways to bring more traffic" isn't really helping here. See, I am stuck with around 5-6 campeigns that bring only few sales a month - that's how I make around 600-800 dollars a month on autopilot but that's it. I want more but have no idea how.
If you could give some step by step advice I think it will help a lot to me and a lot of other guys, because the question on how to find a converting niche is already bitten to death and the only peace in the puzzle that is missing is how to milk the heck out of a converting niche.

 

Good question:

a) UNfortunately, scaling isn't something that is universally standard niche to niche or campaign to campaign. In theory, you simply do more (take ad spending from $100 a day to $500 a day to $1,000 a day while churning profit). However some markets are capped, some have way too much competition, some are old, some micro niches you might think you're doing poorly in might actually be as scaled as you can get for any particular days marketshare.

b) Scaling is very much like tweaking, we tweak to convert, then to conversion master the whole funnel, then we do the backend, then we test pricepoints etc. etc. until it's peaked. Scaling is also tweaking but it's not to say 'write 50 more articles a day, and get 400 backlinks every day' will scale for you naturally either. Usually scaling involves bigger media buys/traffic sources or a lot of affiliates that do media buys for you if you're the vendor (traditional online adwords counts but I'm talking actual site specific or portfolio specific 10K ad spots that can yield 10x your return if flipped right). If you don't have money, and you must rely on SEO 100%, I'm afraid there's really no way to scale huge for free (bum marketing is great but is capped, and if you made 10K/month for free imagine what you can do with a budget!).

c) Scaling without a budget or an uncapped marketplace is hard, so it kinda does go back to niche selection, timing, product lifecycle point, your competitors, everything matters and there is no step by step to follow, there is no universal way to scale for all variables in all niches... This is why you might be capping out.

Also - maybe you're overcomplicating it - scaling simply means 'more/bigger' so to bring it back to basics, you made a campaign, you got it profitable, all SEO/no adspend < That's awesome, you proved you found a path to profit. Essentially yes you're trying to milk that pocket for as much as you can as often as you can from every angle you can - there is no plan for that you simply have to do 'more/bigger' campaigns. In your case, let's triple the whole equation (i.e. you have 15-16 campaigns, and you make $2000+/month). Of course it's a ton more work, but that's also a way to scale (you are getting good at your practice/pitches/landers/whatever, if you can get 5-6 campaigns profitable you're doing something right!).

 

You are talking about a budget, I can risk 1000$ but where and how? I mean - adwords is closed for the Cb affiliates, they almost banned my account because I was promoting clickbank ebooks. Where to go? MSN? Yahoo?
I actually tried media buying and it worked great for the ejaculation trainer ebook but then the website owner didn't wanted my ad or the website, I don't know because I bought the ad space through the blogads website and couldn't talk directly to the owner (no they don't have any contact email on the blog). Then the product suddenly stopped converting for me so that's it.

Let me ask you something - is it even possible to really scale up with health niches like eczema or fungas or anything from that type? Media buying can bring a lot of traffic but the CTR is probably going to be very poor for these niches if the website is not directly niche related.
Do you think that the big money can be earned only in huge markets like anti aging or something that interests a lot of people like games and music?
Sorry for all these question but I just have a chance to get answers from someone who already made it so I'm asking everything I can...

 

You are talking about a budget, I can risk 1000$ but where and how? I mean - adwords is closed for the Cb affiliates, they almost banned my account because I was promoting clickbank ebooks. Where to go? MSN? Yahoo?

** There's no perfected formula that's universal mate otherwise everyone would do it
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I actually tried media buying and it worked great for the ejaculation trainer ebook but then the website owner didn't wanted my ad or the website, I don't know because I bought the ad space through the blogads website and couldn't talk directly to the owner (no they don't have any contact email on the blog). Then the product suddenly stopped converting for me so that's it.

**^ That's one specific campaign, not much I can really do to help but you did learn that dealing directly with a product owner is important especially when you have adspend going in.
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Let me ask you something - is it even possible to really scale up with health niches like eczema or fungas or anything from that type? Media buying can bring a lot of traffic but the CTR is probably going to be very poor for these niches if the website is not directly niche related.
Do you think that the big money can be earned only in huge markets like anti aging or something that interests a lot of people like games and music?

**Personally - my theory is you can money (a lot of money) and scale in just about any niche out there. Yes there is a market cap on certain micro-niches, however at the end of the day look at it as 'data' that you're looking at and trying to monetize, vs. just a constant traffic flow slipping through your fingers and you catch the odd sale.

You have to first and foremost find a path to profit, which you have done a few times now, there is no specific sequence to take unfortunately and the business you run should be hybrid (meaning why stick to just aff'ing for a few ebooks). You should be creating lists, creating your own products for those lists, filtering the lists into buyers, repeat buyers, adding backend exercises and retention campaigns, all on top of affiliating with others (and that's just clickbank).

While it's possible to make millions as an affiliate, it won't come with sustainability as THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a never ending profitable campaign. < Literally, NO SUCH THING especially for affiliates. It happens in spikes, and when you go through spikes THAT is the primo time to scale. If you've plateau'd with your niche/product/path to profit you have to start doing other stuff, I can't tell you what other stuff but test other platforms, other products, go for a higher price point, try residuals, try a niche you're truly passionate about vs. looking for money right away.

Another thing I'd recommend, is (seriously) getting off and away from forums for a few weeks while you strategize a new slate of action plans (actually get a pencil/paper and draft it out - x new product choices, x new campaigns, x new product to develop, x new email lists to start building, x months to complete everything and try to keep banking on current profitable campaigns). Nothing keeps you stupid like others that are failing miserably, you only get better at playing basketball by playing with those better than you. I guess I'm here as a coach vs. a player otherwise I don't play ball here anymore .

We tend to really overcomplicate it, screen + graphics + text + price, demand/supply, traffic, it can't be that hard if you pull yourself out of mini marketer mode and think BIG, make every action you do BIG, risk BIG, lose BIG, learn BIG, scale BIG (incrementally) once you find paths to profit.
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Sorry for all these question but I just have a chance to get answers from someone who already made it so I'm asking everything I can...

**No problem that's why I'm here, bring it on

 

Norb, I'd like to suggest something here as well (I don't know if it's been said yet)

I think that targeting is one of the best things you can do online. For example, if you release some product which says "how to lose weight", it's not targeting anyone, and so no-one feels a connection to the product. However, if you have a program such as "how to lose weight after a baby" or "how to lose weight when you retire" or "how to lose weight in 2 minutes a day" or something, you'll have MUCH more success.

I know you have your hands in the beat making niche (dubturbo), and a good example for peeps entering this market would be to make backing tracks (or whatever they are called) or special effects or something. That's a great way to get into marketing - to target specific people and seem like you know what you're talking about to them. AFter that, you can then branch out to more broader areas.

 

First of all let me thank you for coming back to DP to answer our questions.

Here is my doubt

It's unbelievable that you are not using email marketing at all. That means people just come to your product page and after reading your sales page, they buy.

I thought all successful people make consistent money only after they made a good relationship through email marketing.

Could you please clarify my doubt?

Thanks

 

** Cheers thanks in turn. Yep, splitting up your niche into micro niches definitely helps. In the end I've simply broken down my biz model into two categories on a daily, I have:

Testing campagins: Stuff I'm about to launch or endorse.
Profitable campaigns: Stuff that's working and making money.

I disregard the rest as quickly as I can, by virtue of process of elimination, or by trying to replicate whatever just worked and scale it without distraction from testers/other stuff NOT making money.

Sure

1. I used to play in the MMO and Forex niches a few years back, and yes I heavily relied on my list building strategies constantly filtering them down into segments and repeat buyers and prospects and cross sells and new products in-house etc. etc. It's hard to just leave money on the table when you know where and how to look at your valuable data. You're absolutely right.

2. I no longer play in those niches, I have a product line that is leading the niche I'm in, and email marketing is simply not as lucrative nor does it make much sense with my demographics, and a few simple tests proved this to me.

Example: I have a beat maker software, and I have a few beat/sound kit sites, all cross sell well, however the demo is very hard to convert. So in the past we've tried MANY email campaigns with this demo and found that it cost more to have them than it's worth (i.e. we grow to 10k emails of people that want free beats, now I MUST monetize them just to pay for them to be there).

Email marketing doesn't always apply to vendors. YES I can just as easily email all my buyers in this niche, and I do, however it's all internal, I give stuff away, and haven't monetized on an actual email sendout in well over a year now. Mind you the emails I DO sendout, go to affiliates, lot's of them, and they do get into email marketing I'm sure, however not all of them care to.

3. This model is unique, I make good money on the front end and for the first time my backend is MINE, not cross selling to ANYONE, why would I want to pass off potential long term buyers or expose my affiliates to new competitors and dilute my operation. I keep them close to me, I now keep all my data close to me and only monetize on in-house projects. So there is no need for me to do customer based email pitches.

To break it down for you even more: Even though there is money in it, I found it daunting to do weekly/even monthly email blasts to people hoping to churn profit, it DOES work, and works well, but it's not my cup of tea and I still monetize/create value just the same by keeping my customers and traffic all internal without harassing them to keep buying (it goes against most marketing however it is the route I chose, and it works well for ME, perhaps it wouldn't with others or other niches).

4. Nothing wrong with people simply buying your front end, backend, and never hearing from you again or wanting to revisit your site - in essence it's a great way to automate your passive income sans some customer support.

Residuals are obviously another great model, so is email campaigning, so is ANYTHING that you enjoy doing and churns a profit for you. It's simply a matter of creating and replicating paths to profit, and if email is included then great, if it's not it doesn't mean you are doomed to fail or can't make your millions.

 

Thanks to all by posting here

 

I'll post more articles as many as I can. I can do it.

 

Thanks for the very detailed answer. Please don't leave this forum. We need your presence

 

Thanks for all the great information!

About being a vendor:

I'm about to launch a product in the 'Home & Garden' niche, and I've nearly spent all my budget of $300 on a Bing PPC search campaign.

Even with split testing, so far I've only been able to get it converting at about 0.5%-0.75%.

My questions are:
-Is this conversion rate acceptable to release it to affiliates?
-Or since it's not converting above 1% should I just sell it off and move onto something else.

I was aiming for at least 1% before releasing it to affiliates, but I just can't seem to reach it. The main problem is that I just don't know if a 0.5%-0.75% conversion rate is good for my niche, since every niche is different. Could a product still be successful if it were launched at these conversion rates?

Thanks for your time.

 

As an affiliate I can tell you that these conversion rates are definetely not acceptable - unless there is a lot of cheap traffic. One question - did you do direct linking to the page? Because most affiliates won't and their conversion rate will be a little higher!

 

thanks for the feedback. yes, this is from a direct linking campaign using bing search pay per click advertising.

actually that adds additional questions I'd like to ask:

when a vendor is testing their products should it be done using a ppc search campaign with no presell? or the same plus a presell page like an affiliate would? or should you use other methods (buy traffic from mailing lists) to check that it converts?

I'm kind of making the assumption that if I can get it converting at 1% from a ppc search campaign with no presell, then it's ready for release as it's likely to convert even higher with an affiliate presell involved.

 

How your product works in adwords ?

By the way were you been profitable in Bing with 0.5% CR ?