Egypt looks like it is going DOWN

"it took Carter to get us Reagan."

Can I use that?

 

I wish it were mine .

 

"it took Carter to get us Reagan". That IS a good one!

The best way to understand President Obama is to realize that he wants everyone to like him. Think of the wishy-washy suckup you knew in High School that went along with what everyone liked. Unfortunately, I think that Mit Romney might be the same way.

Right now it seems that everyone in Washington wants to be on the right side of the winner in Egypt.

I think that Mubarak is playing this by letting the protests die down of their own accord. Egypt's economy is shut down, and sooner or later people need to allow food into the supermarkets. Egypt's military was trained by the USA and many of them lived with American troops. I imagine they aspire to the nobility of American soldiers and so want to do the right thing.

 

I like this one:

"It took Carter to get Reagan and it took Obama to get 'the American people to think rationally'."

 

and it took Bush to get Obama....rationaly and nationally, health insurance for all Americans and affordability for everyone.

 

Hold it man... don't exhale1

 

This Mubarak seems to be a biggest thief in Arab history, he managed to collect 40 - 70 Billion Dollars into his bank accounts and properties
oh my god he is thief and traitor to his own people, now he becomes the new 2011 richest man on earth

I can't imagine he still want to stay on his chair and suck up more money, if there were any justice in this world this guy must be sliced to pieces and throw each piece to nasty dogs

US government and Israel must be very anxious because their puppet Mubarak counting his last days, and now they have to look for someone to fill his chair and save all bad contracts made between Egypt and Israel including the Egyptian Gas exportation treaty to Israel

Source link According to ABC news about Mubarak Family Fortune
http://www.businessinsider.com/mubarak-billion-2011-2

 

US government has sent Egypt 68 Billion in aid since 1980. If he pocketed only 15% of that, he could be easily worth 40-70 billion after 30 years of investment. I'm personally not thrilled about the guy siphoning off US Taxpayer dollars, but we generally don't asked for people to be sliced into pieces and thrown to nasty dogs. Seriously, what type of person calls for sadism as a punishment for theft?

 

Well, I doubt if Mubarak is the BIGGEST thief in Arab history. I suspect that dishonor might to go the late Saddam Hussein and the hundreds of billions he took in during the Oil-for-Food scandal when France, Russia, and China let him get around UN sanctions.

But, wake up - being the leader of a country allows one to become rich beyond the dream of avarice. BP's private 'donation" of $20 Billion to Obama was a good start. Notice that when BP gave that money, Obama's justice department abruptly stopped all criminal investigations into BP? Notice how no one from BP has gone to jail? How much of that $20 Billion went into Obama's offshore bank accounts?

 

The situation does seems quite interesting , although i still have a lot of doubts about this revolution . What's the % for Egypt to become a decent muslim nation like Turkey ? Anyone that wants to trow in some numbers and detail their pick ?

 

In a way it seems he at least worked for it over time and sustained stability and relative peace in the process as opposed to the Oil Sheiks, Royals of Saudi Arabia, Dubai etc. who do nothing for the money at all.

 

hope for another Turkey. I guess what happened to Iranian can open other eyes in middle East.
as I see Egyptian just demand democracy and free will.

 

The unrest in Egypt has nothing to do with the ongoing murder and abuse of Copts, but rather with the raise in food prices, the revolution in Tunisia, and the ongoing poverty and corruption.
The trigger to my best understanding was the revolution in Tunisia and the fact that Mubarak will not live for long.
There are a lot of different winds blowing in different directions. The Egyptian population is extremely poor and uneducated (over 50% illiteracy) and they want a better life. There are neighborhoods in Cairo where the average income is 2$/day.
Poverty and ignorance is ofcourse fertile ground for the Islamists, Muslim Brotherhood, which is ofcourse the worst thing that can happen to Egypt if they raise to power. But there is absolutely no certainty or preferred outcome of the current events. We'll have to wait and see. Democracy will not happen in Egypt because the Egyptian people do not understand what it means, is too illiterate and religious for democracy.

It is a shame that in Iran, where the people are ready for democracy, the green demonstrations were stopped by live ammunition and terrorizing its leaders by the regime.
In Egypt the government have no armed militia whose sole purpose is to maintain the dictatorship like in Iran ("revolutionary guards"), the army service is mandatory for everyone, and this is why we see a lot of restraint and a slow "chess game".

In the recent year, The middle east is undergoing very interesting changes in grand scale. It will be very interesting to see how things will turn out.

1) The revolution in Tunisia.
2) The greens in Iran
3) The shiite takeover/possible civil war in Lebanon.
4) Turkey becoming more Islamic and turning its back from secularity and the west. A process that just started and is expected to worsen.
5) Egyptian unrest/revolution.
6) Jordan king fires the government in fear of unrest.
7) Fears of unrest in Syria. Another very poor, brutal, and isolated dictatorship.

The middle east will look totally different in 5 years or so. It will be very interesting to see what is would look like. The decline of the USA and raise of China, India, Russia, will also play a very important role.
We'll have to wait and see

 

Turkey going radical it would be FUBAR as for the rise of China they are heading for a big crash just like India .

 

Seems people here like to ignore key elements and only pay attention to media driven reports. Allow me to post what is documented and raises doubt that the revolt was anything BUT orchestrated:

Here is the secret document sent from the US Embassy in Cairo to Washington disclosing the extent of American support for the protesters behind the Egypt uprising.
Egypt protests: secret US document discloses support for protesters
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 CAIRO 002572 SIPDIS FOR NEA/ELA, R, S/P
AND H NSC FOR PASCUAL AND KUTCHA-HELBLING E.O. 12958: DECL:
12/30/2028 TAGS: PGOV, PHUM, KDEM, EG SUBJECT: APRIL 6 ACTIVIST ON HIS
U.S. VISIT AND REGIME CHANGE IN EGYPT REF: A. CAIRO 2462 B.
CAIRO 2454 C. CAIRO 2431 Classified By: ECPO A/Mincouns
Catherine Hill-Herndon for reason 1.4 (d ). 1. (C) Summary and
comment: On December 23, April 6 activist xxxxxxxxxxxx expressed
satisfaction with his participation in the December 3-5 \”Alliance of
Youth Movements Summit,\” and with his subsequent meetings with USG
officials, on Capitol Hill, and with think tanks. He described how
State Security (SSIS) detained him at the Cairo airport upon his
return and confiscated his notes for his summit presentation calling
for democratic change in Egypt, and his schedule for his Congressional
meetings. xxxxxxxxxxxx contended that the GOE will never undertake
significant reform, and therefore, Egyptians need to replace the
current regime with a parliamentary democracy. He alleged that
several opposition parties and movements have accepted an unwritten
plan for democratic transition by 2011; we are doubtful of this claim.
xxxxxxxxxxxx said that although SSIS recently released two April 6
activists, it also arrested three additional group members. We have
pressed the MFA for the release of these April 6 activists. April 6′s
stated goal of replacing the current regime with a parliamentary
democracy prior to the 2011 presidential elections is highly
unrealistic, and is not supported by the mainstream opposition. End
summary and comment. —————————- Satisfaction with
the Summit —————————- 2. (C) xxxxxxxxxxxx expressed
satisfaction with the December 3-5 \”Alliance of Youth Movements
Summit\” in New York, noting that he was able to meet activists from
other countries and outline his movement’s goals for democratic change
in Egypt. He told us that the other activists at the summit were very
supportive, and that some even offered to hold public demonstrations
in support of Egyptian democracy in their countries, with xxxxxxxxxxxx
as an invited guest. xxxxxxxxxxxx said he discussed with the other
activists how April 6 members could more effectively evade harassment
and surveillance from SSIS with technical upgrades, such as
consistently alternating computer \”simcards.\” However, xxxxxxxxxxxx
lamented to us that because most April 6 members do not own computers,
this tactic would be impossible to implement. xxxxxxxxxxxx was
appreciative of the successful efforts by the Department and the
summit organizers to protect his identity at the summit, and told us
that his name was never mentioned publicly. ——————- A
Cold Welcome Home ——————- 3. (S) xxxxxxxxxxxx told us
that SSIS detained and searched him at the Cairo Airport on December
18 upon his return from the U.S. According to xxxxxxxxxxxx, SSIS
found and confiscated two documents in his luggage: notes for his
presentation at the summit that described April 6′s demands for
democratic transition in Egypt, and a schedule of his Capitol Hill
meetings. xxxxxxxxxxxx described how the SSIS officer told him that
State Security is compiling a file on him, and that the officer’s
superiors instructed him to file a report on xxxxxxxxxxxx most recent
activities. ——————————————— ———-
Washington Meetings and April 6 Ideas for Regime Change
——————————————— ———- 4. (C)
xxxxxxxxxxxx described his Washington appointments as positive, saying
that on the Hill he met with xxxxxxxxxxxx, a variety of House staff
members, including from the offices of xxxxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxxx),
and with two Senate staffers. xxxxxxxxxxxx also noted that he met
with several think tank members. xxxxxxxxxxxx said that xxxxxxxxxxxx’s
office invited him to speak at a late January Congressional hearing on
House Resolution 1303 regarding religious and political freedom in
Egypt. xxxxxxxxxxxx told us he is interested in attending, but
conceded he is unsure whether he will have the funds to make the trip.
He indicated to us that he has not been focusing on his work as a
\”fixer\” for journalists, due to his preoccupation with his U.S.
trip. 5. (C) xxxxxxxxxxxx described how he tried to convince his
Washington interlocutors that the USG should pressure the GOE to
implement significant reforms by threatening to reveal CAIRO 00002572
002 OF 002 information about GOE officials’ alleged \”illegal\”
off-shore bank accounts. He hoped that the U.S. and the international
community would freeze these bank accounts, like the accounts of
Zimbabwean President Mugabe’s confidantes. xxxxxxxxxxxx said he wants
to convince the USG that Mubarak is worse than Mugabe and that the GOE
will never accept democratic reform. xxxxxxxxxxxx asserted that
Mubarak derives his legitimacy from U.S. support, and therefore
charged the U.S. with \”being responsible\” for Mubarak’s \”crimes.\”
He accused NGOs working on political and economic reform of living in
a \”fantasy world,\” and not recognizing that Mubarak — \”the head of
the snake\” — must step aside to enable democracy to take root. 6.
(C) xxxxxxxxxxxx claimed that several opposition forces — including
the Wafd, Nasserite, Karama and Tagammu parties, and the Muslim
Brotherhood, Kifaya, and Revolutionary Socialist movements — have
agreed to support an unwritten plan for a transition to a
parliamentary democracy, involving a weakened presidency and an
empowered prime minister and parliament, before the scheduled 2011
presidential elections (ref C). According to xxxxxxxxxxxx, the
opposition is interested in receiving support from the army and the
police for a transitional government prior to the 2011 elections.
xxxxxxxxxxxx asserted that this plan is so sensitive it cannot be
written down. (Comment: We have no information to corroborate that
these parties and movements have agreed to the unrealistic plan
xxxxxxxxxxxx has outlined. Per ref C, xxxxxxxxxxxx previously told us
that this plan was publicly available on the internet. End comment.)
7. (C) xxxxxxxxxxxx said that the GOE has recently been cracking down
on the April 6 movement by arresting its members. xxxxxxxxxxxx noted
that although SSIS had released xxxxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxxx \”in the
past few days,\” it had arrested three other members. (Note: On
December 14, we pressed the MFA for the release of xxxxxxxxxxxx and
xxxxxxxxxxxx, and on December 28 we asked the MFA for the GOE to
release the additional three activists. End note.) xxxxxxxxxxxx
conceded that April 6 has no feasible plans for future activities.
The group would like to call for another strike on April 6, 2009, but
realizes this would be \”impossible\” due to SSIS interference,
xxxxxxxxxxxx said. He lamented that the GOE has driven the group’s
leadership underground, and that one of its leaders, xxxxxxxxxxxx, has
been in hiding for the past week. 8. (C) Comment: xxxxxxxxxxxx
offered no roadmap of concrete steps toward April 6′s highly
unrealistic goal of replacing the current regime with a parliamentary
democracy prior to the 2011 presidential elections. Most opposition
parties and independent NGOs work toward achieving tangible,
incremental reform within the current political context, even if they
may be pessimistic about their chances of success. xxxxxxxxxxxx
wholesale rejection of such an approach places him outside this
mainstream of opposition politicians and activists.
SCOBEY02008-12-307386PGOV,PHUM,KDEM,EGAPRIL 6 ACTIVIST ON HIS U.S.
VISIT AND REGIME CHANGE IN EGYPT

 

This raises some eyebrows too, does it not?


[video=youtube;xxUH_c4w42c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxUH_c4w42c&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

Here is a good video outlining everything about this which does not add up:

[video=youtube;w5PKKSzv0YY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w5PKKSzv0YY[/video]

 

What do we see here?

 

Ironic is that no one supported our peaceful movement last year, whereas the entire world is united against Mubarak now! From UN, USA, Europe, Turkey and so on.

 

Dude, do you even read the material you post? Just because the Telegraph put the headline "US Secretly Supported Regime Change" above this wikileaks cable, doesn't change it's content, which does not give any evidence of US involvement. In fact let me quote from your own post the comments by some low level US State Department guy who conducted these interviews:

In other words, the activist was considered delusional by the US government officials he met with, and yet that is somehow considered evidence of orchestration and collusion? Matt Drudge actually posted this wikileak as his cover story with the Telegraph's misleading headline, and I wrote him the same scathing response.

Yah, I fear that Chaos Trivia may have nailed it. Why is the Obama actively supporting the ouster of Mubarak, a milk toast dictator at best, while remaining completely silent when the educated population of Iran called for the same against a guy like Ahmadinijad?

@Chaos: Did you read the Haeretz editorial I pasted from? Your take seems to match that pretty well, along with most other Israeli editorial's I've read on the matter.