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France's Latest Laws

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ApocalypseXL, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. #1
    In the recent weeks France was one of the few countries that took a firm stand against cultural and ethical invasion . By abusing the "mercy for the poor" and "forced equal rights" cards a lot of individuals infiltrated E.U. countries . Due to the fact that we believe in freedom and equal rights we've let them go and allowed them to live on our lands .

    The recent economic crisis was a wake up call . EU is not the US and we don't have a open arms immigration policy . I do believe that the mass deportation of gypsies and baning of the burqa are important steps in improving the EU social problems .

    Personally i think the burqa should be globally banned simply because it conceals a persons ID . I mean even I could go rob a bank and no one will have a clue if I wear that thing . However if you wear a ski mask every policeman will stop you and ask for your papers .

    Bottom line is that I think this new laws are quite beneficial for all sides . What is your opinion ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  2. The Peoples SEO

    The Peoples SEO Well-Known Member

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    #2
    When people think of America they think of freedom... and how can you blame someone for wanting to chase the American dream.

    "we've letted them go and allowed them to live on our lands"

    I'm sure no immigrants lived on any of your "land" so why are you so worried about it, that's if you even own any "land" in France... If someone bombed France, I'm sure you would be the first to come begging another country for entry... You must have forgotten that France was a conquered country not too long ago, and it took the U.S to repell your invaders and allow the french people" to go back to their "land"

    If it wasn't for the U.S you would be speaking German right now, and have no "land" to speak of...
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
    The Peoples SEO, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  3. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #3
    What does the oppression of women and setting up gypsy camps have to do whit freedom ?

    The refugees that have came from war zones (Iraq , Afghanistan , etc) where always given political shelter . But last time I checked there was no war in Morocco , Turkey , Egypt , Algeria , Albania or any other country that pours in immigrants .

    As for the role of the US in WWII that is another matter . Feel free to open a thread on the subject .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  4. The Peoples SEO

    The Peoples SEO Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Like I said, not too long ago, France had no "land" and as far as Morocco , Turkey , Egypt , Algeria , Albania not being war torn, doesn't mean they don't want a better life for their families... They don't have a Democratic government like we do...

    What I get from your post, is that you are ungrateful with no clue about human rights. It was only yesterday that the French people were spilling into bordering countries with no place to call home... You can thank the U.S for even having a place to call home, but judging from your thread, you are probably ungrateful for that also...

    I guess is ok for France to overflow their neighbors borders, but not ok when people overflow theirs. You can't have it both ways buddy... You should just be greatful that France is not part of Germany.
     
    The Peoples SEO, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  5. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #5
    Whit the exception of Egypt the rest of the countries are democracies .

    Human rights are valid so long as they don't violate human rights . It's OK for me to open a shop and steal your clients trough competition . It's not OK for me to come and steal your wallet .

    And please stop trying to troll me whit the history of WWII . I'm not French .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  6. The Peoples SEO

    The Peoples SEO Well-Known Member

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    #6

    Troll?? Is that your comeback? Listen dude, not everybody is going to agree with your ridiculous views. If you don't like what people have to say, then don't make any threads, its that simple. There is two sides to every story, so if you only want to hear one side, then stay off the dam boards. I don't know if you expected a pat on the ass, but you asked for everyone's opinion and I gave it to you.

    I brought up WW2 because it was not long ago, when France were immigrants themselves. Guess you don't like hearing the truth...

    Me a troll? lol not even close... I'll forget you even said that ;-)

    Anyway I am going to leave your lil thread alone. Guess you're not ready to hear other peoples opinion. Like that one movies said "You can't handle the truth" lol

    [video=youtube;UXoNE14U_zM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/video]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
    The Peoples SEO, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  7. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #7
    Unless you and I aren't in the same dimension you'd know that the French where never immigrants . Even when the 3rd Reich annexed France the people never left . As for the US contribution to Operation Overlord you're forgetting some guys called : UK , Vichy France , Red Army , French resistance and the eternal lulz Hitler himself . Don't get cocky imagining that the US saved the world by crushing the Nazi single handedly .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  8. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #8
    My 2 cents...

    I think I'm more on the side of France, but if I'm wrong feel free to correct me. In regards to the gypsies that are being deported, it appears they are in France illegally, as they are not regular citizens, and cannot prove they have a legal source of income. Even if your in a country that's a member of the EU, I do believe if you travel to France, there are restrictions. They want a workers permit, if you're there longer than 3 months, you need to show legal proof of income.

    So, if you go to France and want to stay, you should probably get a job, and do your best to keep that job. From what I've read, many of them don't work, but come there and are involved in illegal activities. So, if they go to a gypsy camp and they can't provide a workers permit or proof of income, France wants to fly them back home. Not exactly WWII-ish as the EU wants to make it out to be, or am I missing something? To me, it just sound like the government of France is protecting the interests of it's regular citizens.

    In regards to the burqa, I think head scarfs should never be an issue, but can see how face veils could be. So, while I don't really care for the idea of the government telling women what they can or cannot wear, I don't really criticize France on the face veil decision.
     
    Rebecca, Sep 15, 2010 IP
  9. LeoSeo

    LeoSeo Well-Known Member

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    #9
    @OP A few questions. I fail to see the consistency. Most of the romani immigration happens from an EU country to an EU country (Romania/Bulgaria mostly -> Western Europe). France deported the people back to Romania so they are effectively still in the EU, so from an all around EU perspective you seem to care for, what difference does it make if they are still in the EU and can always go back?

    As such EU does have an open arms immigration policy within the EU, do you think the problem was admitting the eastern block, particularly Romania and Bulgaria, or the general free travel/work permit policy?
     
    LeoSeo, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  10. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #10
    1st of please don't call the gypsies roma or something like that . I already have enough problems distinguishing between gypsies , Romanians and Rome lol . At this rate will end up whit some black Dracula living in Rome .

    The problem is that Bulgaria , Romania , Hungary and other countries whit gypsies failed to integrate all of them . As far as I know there are 3 kind of gypsies : hard working ones , those that buy and sell anything they can get their hands on and those that are to lazy to do anything but pickpocketing , scamming and begging .

    The last ones are the big problem . A lot of the parents consider work "a shame" . They refuse to let their children get proper education , burn their IDs and pop out kids . So they just migrate around like they always did and set up camp and infest the land whit shit (srsly) and petty crime . They're a horror to look at and a menace to women , kids and young people .

    Althou they are EU citizens their rights end when their step on the right of others . It's OK for me to come and walk down your street , but it's not OK for me to set up camp in your front yard . As for them returning they will probably be stooped at the borders .

    In a similar situation are a lot of migrants from Asia and Africa . They refuse to work in their countries and think that in EU we have rivers of milk and honey . Since they refuse any form of integration the only solution is to send them back and ban them from coming back .

    Free travel , free trade and free work are fundamental principles of the EU and all citizens have equal rights . But that doesn't mean that the member states can't defend their citizens and values . All former communist countries have a slower rate of development compared whit the ones that have been free since the end of WWII or since the '70s . Romania and Bulgaria have some shitty governments and haven't been in the Union long enough to solve all their problems . I believe it will be another decade before they can achieve the living conditions of present day Italy .

    Whit the exception of Iceland and maybe the fags from Norway no other country will join the EU any time soon . So only have to fight non EU immigration and unlawful citizens .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  11. LeoSeo

    LeoSeo Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Right. So as far as your post goes, gypsies, asians, africans and muslims should go back. On the other hand the poor and corrupt parts of the Eastern Europe should improve to the western standard and integrate. Can we simply say that what you support is an exclusively white(caucasian), christian(or non-religious) Europe? May I ask where you are from btw, not that it matters but so far I've mostly seen this pattern of thinking from the central europeans mostly, Germans, French, Austrians, Dutch and so on. Rest usually have more of a middle of the road, pros&cons sort of opinion.
     
    LeoSeo, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  12. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #12
    Who's sending anyone home ? I'm talking about non-citizens . If you're a citizen you have the right to live anywhere . We have been to permissive whit illegal immigration . You can't have social stability whit people that contribute to the crime rate and only that .

    As for your Muslim friends , when you will exterminate the mentality that a woman should be forbidden to wear what she likes then we can talk about cultural exchange . Right now kindness is being abused in the name of "cultural respect" and political correctness . And if you don't like it in the EU you can always go back to the ultra-civilized Muslim world .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  13. Law-Dude

    Law-Dude Active Member

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    #13
    Anybody who is not a citizen of the country and who illegally squats on property they do not own should be kicked out. If those people happen to be gypsies, vagrants, hobos, or whatever you wish to call them, so be it. If they decide not to do enough work to be able to pay to rent some land legally instead of doing it illegally, it's their own fault.

    In any event, my understanding is that the Roma deportations are voluntary, with a cash incentive. It will probably fail because it amounts to a paid vacation to Bulgaria or Romania, and then they can just drive back to France and be squatters again.

    As far as Asians, Africans, and Muslims go, France hasn't tried to deport anybody for being any of those things. What they have said--and this is only seems to affect Muslims since other people don't have to be told this--is that if someone comes to France, they have to integrate into French society. To that end I believe they refused to allow the naturalization of someone who was wearing the burqa, and they eventually banned it in public altogether (which I do not agree with).

    Anybody can go to France and live there on the terms of the French. If they don't like it, they don't have to move to France, but if they do move there they shouldn't expect French society to accomodate obnoxious behaviour. Nobody is going to kick immigrants out of France for being one colour rather than another, but they will kick them out if they do not behave as one would expect of someone in a first world country.
     
    Law-Dude, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  14. LeoSeo

    LeoSeo Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Well it's not that simple. First off it's not so easy to deport people due to legal proceedings, especially the asylum seekers, as such most north african or asian people, that France seem to have a problem with integration, can't be as easily deported as the new EU citizen roma people, it's not out of mercy. I'm pretty sure Sarkozy would like to send them all back if he had the power. Voluntary deportation or the unemployment is "politically correct" pretext whereas you can't forcefully deport people with the formal reason of "not liking gypsies around" or "improve the pleasure of the French citizen eyes". And as long as the answer to non-integration within the EU is deportation, I don't see how EU can be solid, integrated, "real" union.

    @ApocalypseXL You fail to address the question. What makes the mass immigrating people from relatively poor former communist block who mostly have different cultures and background, any better than those who you support to be "sent back"? Do you think it was a mistake to admit them in the first place or since they are predominantly white & christian, are they worth spending money and time to integrate for decades on, contrary to the asians, muslims etc? Are you German, Dutch or Austrian or something else to have this opinion - just out of curiosity.
     
    LeoSeo, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  15. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Woah, which country deported gypsies? Are these native gypsies or are they illegal aliens?

    I don't know why any EU country is deporting anyone who is native to any country currently ratified within the EU, since the ridiculous immigration policy of the union allows open boarders to member states.

    We shouldn't be looking at improving social problems within the EU because such a union shouldn't exist in the first place. Down with the EU and long live national sovereignty!

    Apocalypse, how can you support such an oppressive idea? I think the freedom of anonymity is a basic right. If I choose to wear the balaclava I have in public, without breaking the law, I should be left alone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
    BRUm, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  16. Law-Dude

    Law-Dude Active Member

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    #16
    I agree with that, which is why I oppose banning the burqa, or any form of face covering.

    However, if you are wearing the balaclava because you fear violence from someone for not wearing it, I believe the person you fear should be deported if they are not a citizen.
     
    Law-Dude, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  17. Law-Dude

    Law-Dude Active Member

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    #17
    Au contraire, I think that if the member states of the EU were not permitted to deport nationals from other member states who would not integrate, there would be no choice but for the affected state to withdraw from the EU, and the union would collapse. No union can survive if the price of membership for a country is the loss of the right to eject individuals who harm or threaten to harm the country's citizenry.
     
    Law-Dude, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  18. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #18
    Countries don't have human rights they are not human, and until an individuals human rights have been breached there is no human rights violation.

    Apparently many have tried to get permits to remain there but the French are not playing ball and making it very difficult to do so.

    Regarding the Burka its an ugly piece of head-wear and I would personally prefer people not to wear it, just as I prefer people not to go about their daily business dressed as clowns but having said that banning it is going to far.
     
    Toopac, Sep 16, 2010 IP
  19. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #19
    One of the dumbest thing to do my Turkish friend is to accuse the US or in this case the EU of racisms . Your words may seem well chosen to you but it is quite easily to see the message .

    Whit the exception of Ukraine and Belarus all former Easter Block countries have been integrated in the EU . And all have been accepted whit a unanimity of votes . So my opinion is irrelevant since the majority of Europe supports it . Why are you so curious of my nationality ? You hide yours . Afraid of being stigmatized ? Or are you afraid your opinions will be looked upon as biased ?

    Relationships are built on common points . The more common points are the easier is to cohabitate . So in order to assimilate people that refuse to adapt the EU itself would have to massively change to home those that refuse to change . By this policy the Eastern Block was assimilated , a large number of pakis have been assimilated in UK , algerians in France and turks in Germany .

    There are however huge numbers of illegals that have been mercifully accepted due to a "political shelter request" and that refuse to learn the language , get a job and all they do is take up space and generate crime . The violent rebellions in France that took place not to long ago are standing proof that such individuals are a menace to society .

    Anyone that refuses to fit in can leave regardless of the skin color or heritage . If you're a citizens you go to jail if you're an illegal immigrant you get the boot . Until now limited actions have been taken a large amounts of cash have been spent on humanitarian aid and social aid . What was charity for the less fortunate has now run out of cash . Many of this people had years to integrate and they didn't . France's measures are simply defending it's citizens .

    To live in the EU you have to be a citizen or or to have a legal permit . Tertium non datur

    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-19/...ania-and-bulgaria-french-minister?_s=PM:WORLD


    So in a similar line you would like to disband US , Canada , Russia , China , India and UAE ? What nice wold that would be , back to tribalism . After all evolution is so overrated . Who needs good laws and the power to build a better world , right ?

    The sky mask isn't banned because we only use it when it is appropriate . Try walking whit a sky mask into a bank as see how the people will react . Besides facilitating discrimination the burqa is forced upon the wearers . Forced anonymity is similar to slavery . We're trying to build a better more united society not a more divided one .

    I believe Law-Dude clarified those problems .
     
    ApocalypseXL, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  20. LeoSeo

    LeoSeo Well-Known Member

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    #20
    First off, my anonymous national friend, I do not hide my nationality, whoever knows me here, knows it, and I'd answer if you asked. Yet you hid and still hide yours for some reason, probably for the reasons you stated. I take it you can't answer that, it's okay.

    "Whit the exception of Ukraine and Belarus all former Easter Block countries have been integrated in the EU" They have NOT been integrated in the EU, with a few exceptions they have only been admitted in the EU, that is quite a huge difference. There were even some restriction for Romania and Bulgaria until 2010 or 2012 I'm not sure. The immigration from the eastern block is still a major problem in the western EU, there's a term "Polish plumber" for a reason.

    As such, when you start a thread about complaining about immigration and integration, you shouldn't only cherry pick the ones you don't personally like but those aspects also need a mention. If you read my posts again I have not accused US or EU for racism but you telling here that asians, gypsies, africans and muslims are problems whereas the only difference with the eastern block, or former communist block, considering they are also relatively poor and comes from a different culture, is that they are white christians, so that quite tells about your intentions starting this thread no matter how hard you try to veil it with the fancy EU values or present loopholes as the superiority of law when it comes to deportations.
     
    LeoSeo, Sep 17, 2010 IP