Win.MS - is this domain name safe?

Hello,

First, please do not report this thread as a duplicate, my thread on the appraisals forum is for appraising the domain name.

I own win.ms and intend to use it for a Windows software and windows based software related website, kinda like these websites:

http://forums.windowsforum.org/
http://www.windowsforum.com/
http://thewinforums.com/

The first two websites use the word windows (which is a ®) as part of the domain name whereas the third doesn't, but it includes the word win, which reassembles to windows and win32 which are both ®, my domain name win.ms does the same.

So my questions are:
* Is it safe to own and use this domain name?
* If yes, is it safe to use it for a website discussing Microsoft software and windows based software, of course making it clear that the website is not connected to Microsoft?

Cheers
Nabil Kadimi

 

From my understanding, yes, it is safe to use the domain name. Similar to how people create fan sites for games like World of Warcraft and RuneScape. Using the trademarked/copyrighted name doesn't always make it illegal. I think you might find this interesting, if you can understand it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

 

Personally I think you are headed down the long road of headaches.

 

Sometimes the short answer just won't cut it. You are embarking upon a perilous journey. My suggestion is that you speak with an attorney before committing resources to these sites.

 

Thank you for your answers, would someone please explain - from the law point of view - why I can or cannot use the domain

 

I've already given you detailed answers on your other thread - but it would seem you are intent on finding someone who can give you an answer you want to hear. Owning a domain that could cause a "likelihood of confusion" is trademark infringement. A disclaimer on your site doesn't negate that confusion because they have to visit your site before they can read it, and by that time, the "theft of traffic" has already occured. Your original thread said WIN.MS (windows microsoft) and that is enough to show a bad faith usage of the domain. If you want to use the domain for a site on gambling, that is different. Using it for a forum on for Microsoft operating systems is opening the door for a lawsuit. You can't choose a domain name to ride the goodwill of a mark - especially a company known for enforcement like Microsoft which has taken action or sued for thousands of domains that they believe infringe upon their mark. Microsoft does don't own the word "windows" but the combination of WIN and MS, makes a good case for an attempt to ride the success of the mark - as your own words have shown. If you want a detailed answer after proper research, hire an intellectual property rights attorney. Expect to pay about $300 an hour on up for someone who specializes in domain infringement. No attorney is going to tell you their is no risk, because Microsoft can sue you for infringement if they want. At that point you will need to spend six figures to keep the domain - and you don't get your attorney fees even if you win. If you lose, you could be ordered by the judge to pay treble their legal fees plus damages. It just isn't worth the risk/reward in my opinion.

 

Honestly, I think it'll be perfectly fine. This is because ;
For example, Xbox.
A simple Google search of "Xbox Forums", shows dozens and dozens of Xbox related forums.

And, not to mention Xbox is part of Microsoft Corp.

 

Right, because someone else is committing trademark infringement it must be ok - brilliant thinking. If it's on the net, it must be legal - lol. A search of WIPO proceedings would show you that microsoft does go after xbox sites. You can also do a search of legal proceedings brought against owners of hundreds of sites. Microsoft has taken legal action against more trademark infringer's than anyone else. They own thousands of domains taken from it's owners, and have also sued and sought $100,000 per infringing domain. http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2003/d2003-0109.html Microsoft owns the trademarks - they don't have to go after everyone, just as many or a few as they want to make examples out of. Additionally, you are not privy to agreements Microsoft may enter into allowing use of their mark(s).

 

Then why exactly isn't doesn't the domain name http://forum.teamxbox.com/ belong too Microsoft Corp.?
The creation/registration of this domain is the 15th of December, 2000.
Understand that IGN owns this network (Parent company: News Corp.), and last time I checked Microsoft doesn't have any relations with News Corp., or IGN.

Edit:
Not to mention the domain name does not include any words Microsoft trademarks.
The TLD, '.MS' was intended to be used for entities connected with Montserrat.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ms )

 

I don't think you are in trouble as far as i know "Microsoft" in the domain would have caused you

 

You obviously have no experience in IP law. Last time you checked with Microsoft?? LOL!! Trademark law requires that a mark holder protects their name against infringement, NOT go after every broke dumbass who tries to ride their goodwill. Corporations make licensing agreements all the time. They are under no obligation to tell you or anyone else who they have allowed to use their marks. (BTW, great research skills - http://paidcontent.org/article/419-msn-partners-with-ign-for-new-video-game-vertical/) The fact remains that Microsoft has gone after thousands of domains - and there are no doubt thousands of other who they could go after. http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/aug06/08-22domaindefense.mspx Now do some actual research before making another stupid post. Research "likelihood of confusion" and then refer to the OP statement that his domain stands for "Windows - Microsoft" (not win in Montserrat) and his intent to use it for a Windows operating system site. Microsoft may or may not take action on this domain - it is entirely up to them. If they take action and sue the domain owner, you will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting it through the court process (and I have personal experience). As I said before, it doesn't matter if you have a good argument, you won't get attorney fees back even if you win. I am always amused at the bravery of those who don't stand to lose anything. Perhaps you are a millionaire who would like to contact the OP and agree to fund a legal defense? Yeah, I didn't think so.

This is the legal section for people with actual experience, not the legal guess forum by idiots. Using your logic, if you found a child porn site it must mean it is legal to operate.

 

Well, as far as i know... Windows has its trademark registered as Windows and Not Win


So you may go on

Enjoy

 

Another moron post. Mike Rowe wasn't registered either.

Listen up:

1) Trademark Infringement DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EXACT.

2) Trademarks do NOT need to be registered.

3) Phonetic, misspellings, foreign spellings, similar spellings, any name that may cause confusion can be trademark infringement.

4) Adding words to a mark in a domain name does not get around infringement.

5) You cannot use a domain name that attempts to ride the goodwill of a mark established by someone else.

6) Adding a disclaimer doesn't mean you are not infringing or cannot be sued.

7) Someone else doing something doesn't mean you can do it and isn't a legal defense.

8) Usage (what you content is about) is often a determining factor in infringement cases. Famous marks generally have broad protection - Coined terms even greater.

9) If a big company "thinks" you are infringing on their mark - you're screwed if they sue you, regardless of whether or not you are right (unless you have six or seven figures to throw away to keep the domain).

Do you think PerfumeBay.com was infringing upon ebay's trademark? Research the case and see what spending over a half million dollars to keep the domain got the owners. Read about the Microsoft vs. Mike Rowe (his real name) case.

 

I have posted on the "Legal issues" forum so I can get feedback from people with experience and I'm not interested in legal guesses.

Actually, mjewel, I understand your very convective arguments and I don't won't to waste time on building and marketing a website then loosing everything.

 

Sorry, now -
When I first registered here on DigitalPoint, - I didn't expect trolls and downright rude individuals.

Regarding your link too http://paidcontent.org/article/419-msn-partners-with-ign-for-new-video-game-vertical/ , That source does have to about anything regarding partnering up with an XBOX forums IGN currently has - Yet the parntership News Corp. and Microsoft has TO launch http://gameon.msn.com/ .

Obviously not.

Reading the forum description, ("Dedicated to the discussion of legal issues that businesses (or individuals) deal with (including but not limited to trademark, copyright, patent, slander, libel, etc."), it's the DISCUSSION of legal issues. I do not see the terms "You must research this information before posting".

Please stop attacking me, - You win nothing out of it and we are both wasting our time.

 

Legal questions on intellectual property rights are NOT for guesses from people who have no actual experience. If you want to comment with an uneducated opinion, then clearly state that you have no experience in IP disputes and have no legal background. You are GUESSING on what you think the law should be and this is extremely dangerous as you are giving bad advice on matters which can have huge legal and financial consequences. I have been dealing with these types of cases for 15 years and have spend over a million dollars in legal fees over a dozen cases. I have never lost a court case, and have been on both sides of an IP dispute, and have gained firsthand knowledge on what can happen in these situations. I have been in disputes where people on the other side have lost everything to pay for legal costs because they got bad advice and decided to fight an infringement case in court. No one wins in these disputes other than the attorneys.

 

You are quite correct with this statement. However anyone with just a grain of common sence should realize that legal issues are not items that should be replied to by anyone that does not know the answer and just wants to make a post for the sake of posting.

Some of these question posters are new to the internet and are relying on getting the correct advise here. Your advise was totally wrong and Mjewel was completely correct in pulling you up over it.
You have only been here a couple of months so you have not seen the garbage and BS bad advice given by idiots that have no clue on anything, never mind legal issues, that those of us who have been here a while have seen. Stick around, read and learn here in the legal section, and you will with more time see daily the crap I am referring to and you will then understand why some of us get annoyed by it.