Athiests in a debate.

Hello guys, this is my first topic in this area of the forum, don't flame me to hard

I was looking over various topics regarding religion, some of which I have posted on in the past, some I have not. Before I go further I have to say, I really have no problem with Atheism, or most Atheists. I am fine with Atheists, as long as they have a reason for what they believe, not just "Oh its science" or "Oh its common sense". Just as I have a problem with Theists who say "Its in the bible" or "God said so..."

Now moving on, I enjoy debating religion, I enjoy hearing other people's views. But one question I have for Atheists is, why do you get so personal in them? I am not picking on Atheists, because I know Theists do it sometimes too, but many times I will see a Theist make a statement regarding his or her beliefs, only to be called a moron, an idiot, or some name implying the person is just overall stupid. I really find it odd, that you can not know a person, yet you could read a single line of text saying "I believe in God" and you would assume they are stupid.

I would like to hear some all around answers on this. Basically the question, again, is:

Why do [Insert belief here] make insults to a persons state of mind, instead of backing up there ideas with something?

Please keep in mind when commenting, I am only curious, I am not implying that all Atheists are ignorant, just some

 

Ultimately, regardless of belief structure or lack thereof, it seems as though a select percentage of people will hate for no reason. It has no bearing on the person being flamed, nor should it mean that the person doing it is hate-FUL, but we as people all tend to say things out of line here and there.

Hot topics for us will set this off. For Atheists, a big hot topic is religion. For whatever reason, they feel that religion aught to be demonized because they don't believe in it or understand it.

I used to fight the Atheist fight every day. I'd play Devil's Advocate in school every day against those who would champion the causes of virtue, righteousness and faith. I did it for no other reason than personal satisfaction. I felt victorious after flaming someone or undermining someone's contribution to a group discussion if it was idealistic or "corny".

After a while I realized what a complete douche I must have looked like, so I took it upon myself to begin reading the Bible from cover to cover. I figured that I'd be better able to address Christian arguments and common understandings if I had references directly from their own holy text. Sure enough, I have been able to do what I intended, though in a much different way than I expected.

It seems as though after reading most of the Bible, I've come to a point of understanding where I don't even need to speak words against ignorant people for them or their arguments to crumble before me.

Ignorance plays on both sides of the religion fence. I've met many bigoted Atheists and I've met a lot of people who represent Christianity blindly without points of reference or validated Bible quotes. I would say that both are only cheating themselves as we ALL have a lot to learn from one another.

Jason

 

Just as you have read the bible to understand a Christian's thoughts, I have looked at life from an Atheists perspective. I have tried to put myself in their shoes, and see the world from a different Lens, its hard to do

Also, I understand it come from both sides of the fence, but I seem to see more of the "your stupid" comments from Athiests, and the "your going to burn in hell" from Thiests. I find the Atheists to be more offensive, though I like neither, because it attacks the person him/her-self, not just their beliefs.

Can't Atheists just say "I hope you turn into a ugly tree after you die?"

 

Well, the Atheists that I've spoken with tend to have a much more ego-centric view of their existence leaving anything within their grasp that is not Atheist subject to their scrutiny. Perhaps the most valid reason behind that is their belief that after death, there is no afterlife. That, of course ( and I know you were being funny with your last statement) leads them to not entreat the reincarnationist point of view.

Ultimately, I would say that in terms of "offense" in a holistic view, those with religious background can do much more damage as anyone who has read the Bible or other Holy text will be well versed in the battles, wins and losses of the nation discussed in the text, and if history really DOES repeat itself then they're one up against the Soap-Box-Preacher (Theist or Atheist) that has only the repertoire of school-fed History (we all know who won the Civil War. Wooo hooo).

What it boils out to is that human nature is too broad to predict effectively. While the morays and cultural values of a religious group guide the actions of the individual, some of the most heinous things have been done in God's name. Atheists will harp on that all day. I agree with the statement, but I would say that in a Godless world, there would be a much worse condition to deal with between Apathy, Anarchy and monotonous cycles of life.

In the event that Atheists were the only group of people in a society, logic would become their God but the primitive nature of humans would emerge and ultimately the system would be corrupt by the time a government were developed. Not to say that religious establishments are any different, but at least within religious establishments there is an almost unattainable "ideal" way to live that gives people something to strive towards and also feel bad about not attaining. This will lead towards what I like to call progress.

Atheists who all believe that nothing exists after life on Earth will have to live for the moment and that, unless it exists in a society of Highly Evolved Beings, would result in violence, rape, corruption, greed and so many other issues that undermine our society already. I only exempt Highly Evolved Beings because I realize that in the event that SUPER-MORAL entities were to inhabit a region, the chances of them needing government beyond their own consciousnesses would be very low. Being in need of the proverbial "good Samaritan" would not be an issue of waiting for two groups of bystanders before help arrived. HEB's would naturally lift up their society from the bottom because a society can only be deemed as good as its worst-off citizen.

Atheists would be more likely to argue natural selection in the case of someone needing help or aid and write them off as "better-off-dead". Only when they can view themselves as the person in need of help will they realize the folly of their ways.

I'm not anti-atheist either - I just cannot think of any religion or denomination of faith that has tried so vehemently to get me to see things from their perspective. Even before entering High School I had been criticized and attacked for my personal beliefs in God and Christianity by Atheists who ultimately won for a period of time so that I could see the world from their dark, narrow perspective. All those years of fighting the positive influences in my life for the sake of peer approval make me quite sick and it was not a result of the Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, or other. It was the Atheists.

Being a Christian means finding the light of the Lord and living in it. It just seems as though those in the dark find any excuse they can to prey upon those that may be flickering from time to time. Point and matter, the light came back on and I'm thoroughly convinced that no Atheist will ever become President or even close to a position of power in America or anywhere else in the world because faith is what unifies us. Having a figurehead who has no faith but in themselves and their constituents is self defeating as a group of 12-24 even 100 will never be able to overtake the millions of others who believe in something bigger. Even in the scope of physical battle, the best warriors to have lived may have been able to kill 10's of 1,000's of men by themselves, but when pitched against millions, any individual will ultimately suffer the fate of Neo in the Matrix.

That's one "dumb" religious dogpile on top of one "smart" Atheist.

Jason

 

I don't think you have a clue how funny that question is or how it betrays you total lack of understanding of what an Atheist believes.

 

^^ received a negative reputation, and this message for me. Seems some angry Atheist is angry that someone with differing views on the world is speaking up for themselves.

I would like to take this moment to apologize to the Atheists. I am stupid, I am a moron, and I am an idiot. Stating my opinions is very barbaric, and I am ashamed. I don't know what got into my head... believing there is something to live for in life? Believing that God and Heaven are real, and that I should try to spread the idea that life never has to end, I am ashamed of myself.. </sarcasm>


I find it funny how many Atheists only can find things to say when they are negative, they can only leech on others happiness, and try to take away something people hold dear to them.

When most Atheists bring up their views, it seems to me they are just trying to insult others, and make them see the "common sense" in their arguments, and of course the Theist will defend himself using his views and beliefs.
When a the common Theist makes a statement on their views, it is to try to help the Atheist, to try to save him from a life with no overall purpose. Of course, the Atheist will defend himself using insults, and 'science', and theories filled with holes.

What I was trying to get out of this thread was, that instead of using personal insults (and sending negative reputation points for no reason, and leaving dumb comments with them), why not have a civilized, intellectual debate. I encourage Atheists and Theists alike, when debating, leave your brain at the door and think with your heart, use what you believe to defend yourself, not remarks about the person, or 'science'.

Atheism is the belief in the lack of deities. Many Atheists believe in different things. my remark was a joke in case you didn't catch that. It was based in the fact that when you are buried your body is absorbed into the earth and you fertilize life. This is a fact, not a belief. Atheists believe that after death, nothing happens, that you have no soul.

 

Atheists also believe that Jesus lived then. And THEREIN lies the salvation waiting to happen.

There IS proof that Jesus lived on this Earth. Therefore, his presence in your life is inevitable.

I'd LOOOOOVE to see what Atheists have to say about that one. I'm sure it'd be "a whole lotta flambe' "



Bring it.

Jason

 

Yea, maybe he lit the fuse in their 'big boom' lol.

I believe it was 2 years ago his body was found correct?
I also believe many of his disciples were confirmed to be real people as well, not sure on that one though.

 

You certainly started off well by calling Atheists ignorant. Way to keep personal insults out of the thread and concentrate on intellectual debate.

Do you mind telling everyone how calling Atheists ignorant is part of a civilized debate? Did you think that comment would help foster a civilized debate?

 

It seems I used the wrong words. I was implying that the people who make the comments are being rather ignorant, I should not have used the word Atheist in the sentence, because they are not the only ones doing it.

 

Well, I know that my opinion prolly doesn't matter in the light of an Astral Walker, but what the hey...

I think my man Kol has been VERY civilized. Calling people things is kinda important, especially if you build loopholes in it. Kol said that SOME were ignorant.

Also, if you take the great words of Will Durant, "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance."

So with a lil' spin from a secondary source, what my man Kol here was trying to say was that he finds some Atheists to be well read and educated.



There.

Problem solved.

Jason

 

Thank you, its always nice to know you have a smart guy on your side
and you got what i was trying to say right, most Atheists are educated and smart, but then you have some bad apples that are plain ignorant, but that is true for all groups of people, not just Atheists.

 

And that is the point. There are idiots and assholes of every religion and no religion.

 

and that is ok too as long as they don't shit on other people

 

OK, let me make sure I understand...

The theist is simply trying to save the atheist from their sad pathetic meaningless life.

If we debate you, we are required to leave our brain at the door. Here, I'll save you some time...

Rebecca: I'm agnostic, I doubt that G-d exists.

Kolgames: I KNOW G-d exists, it's totally real.

Rebecca: How can you be so sure?

Kolgames: Well Rebecca, the bible tells me so.

Rebecca: How do you know the bible is true.

Kolgames: G-d said it's true!

Rebecca: How do you know G-d said it's true?

Kolgames: Because it's in the bible, stupid.

The End

 

read my first post, I already have stated I am against that way of looking at things. I don't believe most things in the bible actually, especially old testament stories.

 

~ An age of Atheism over religion would eventualy revert to the reasons for the religions than the religions themselves and would be a cleansing for the religious they sorely deserve.

 

He did not generalize and he was very clear that not all atheists are ignorant and i agree with him.

But, it looks for us that you felt that the some ignorant atheists in his statement include you and indeed you have proved it

 

There are many stories in the bible.
Please describe the criteria according to which you determine in which stories you believe, and which ones you don't.
Please also mention two cases, one "real" story and one "false" story, and illustrate how the considerations you previously described apply.

 

Well most old testament stories I find to be ridiculous. Such stories include the creation (I believe God created everything, but 6 days? Give me a break.), Noah and the Ark, the stories of Moses, also I do not agree with how the bible tells us to live. I went to a private Christian Highschool for 3 years, and this year transfered to public school (I ran out of useful classes). I constantly debated Christianity with my theology teacher, and she admitted that the old testament stories are made up, and were created to show the power of God, which I agree with.