Muslims <> Christians

Before i say anything i want to make clear im not a racist i just
want a few answers.

But i do want to ask a few questions:

Why when Muslim people come to European country's
and talk about all this freedom of speech just to build
a mosque ect... but if they get it denied its a worldwide
debate and they make a big show ??? - they talk about
freedom of speech and human rights ect...

But if we where to go into their country's I.E Pakistan
or Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan and we pull out a bible
we get the death sentence for it !?

So if thats the case in the Muslim Country's, Why should
the Catholic Country's accept their religion ???

Personally i would like to hear both sides views.

And those people who are gona come in here and start
calling me a racist go ahead reason you will be calling me
that is because you know im right and you cant take the truth...

 

I'd like to see evidence of examples where someone has been put to death for having a Bible in an Islamic state.

Also, I don't see your link between freedom of speech and building mosques.. Whats the connection and where's the relevance?

 

Did you read the below posts :

1- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12895857&postcount=38

2- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12897554&postcount=40

3- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12897700&postcount=42

4- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12899061&postcount=45

5- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12910020&postcount=54

6- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12911611&postcount=58

7- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12914390&postcount=61

 

I see the point your trying make but there are 2 issues as I see them.

1) Is publicly displaying a bible in a Muslim country an offence that meets the death penalty punishment? And if so, is this generally a Muslim thing or only in some parts of the world? i.e is it widespread?

If its true then there is a valid argument to not allow them the rights they refuse others.

2) However, even if they did the above, would it be right to refuse a mosque being built on the grounds they are intolerant? or refuse them the rights to practice their religion? probably, but we also do have the laws that protect the religious and their rights to practice their faith these are protected by domestic law and also ultimately by the European Convention of Human Rights.

Which means we have to allow it, even if we don't like it because our laws promote freedoms and rights, and would getting down to their level make us tolerant people?

 

And here some of churches :



Guess where are these ?

 

according to the muslims, there should be freedom of speech and freedom of religion when it comes to penguin women, mosques, and so on.
The freedom of speech stops however when criticizing Mohamed or the quran, or the infantile Islamic religion in general.
In that case, a death sentence replaces the freedom of speech.

 

Islamabad Pakistan?










ok I cheated I checked the image URL

 

very nice pictures, ziya. awsome.
Here is the truth about pakistan:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/14/pakistan.christians/index.html?iref=newssearch
great pictures, ziya.
awsome.

 

yes Pakistan . Right

 

Is that any different than kicking them off land because they are Palestinian? In any event both governments deny it.

 

can't believe why the world is blind over these things

 

They are not blind, it's just that with all the illusionary put before there eyes they see/believe the opposite.

 

Ask yourself this question:

Why your people attacking Muslims and Islam everywhere and they yet speak about love and freedom, they ban mosques and do not allow Muslims to wear there Hijab, which is ok, not only that but yet they want to change the Muslims countries to fit there style and then they scream loud about freedom of religion and love and freedom of women when women is a sex toy for them and all kind bullshit.

Take a look here at this forum.

Do you see Muslims attacking Christians, Jews or anyone, yet you can see clearly the complete opposite, the same thing in Media, do you see Muslims attacking Jews, Christian, but its the complete opposite, etc...

See its not us who has double standards:
Speaking about love and they send armies to kill people.
Speaking about freedom of religion and yet they ban mosques and Hijab.
Speaking about freedom of culture and yet they try hardly to change the Muslims societies.
Invading Muslim countries for Oil and yet the Muslims resistance are terrorists for them.
etc etc...

It does need a genius to know who has the double standards.

 

In islam it's a very one sided way of thinking. They piss and moan the instant they don't get thier own way, yet turn a blind eye, or sometimes even claim it's a "cultural difference", when children are raped, women publicly beaten or men are hanged because some other men dont agree with where they put thier penis. So exepecting them to live by the standards they demand from everyone else is frankly futile. They are the perpetual cry-baby victim who think the world has to bend over backwards for them and cater for thier every whim while at the same time shitting on us from a great height. Noting but absolute surrender and servility will ever be enough for them.

 

~ All religions including Muslims and Christian are incomplete as reflected by the above discussions for one example and must open their teachings to be a continuous (open) search for the final truth and working together with the same goal would accomplish much towards the common good during the search. When all but one church remains is when God will return and give the final judgment, as mans time will have come to an end.

~ Each bound by their own incomplete beliefs is the real problem.

~ Reading the Garden is the substenance for all solutions and the answer for hegemony.

 

One Word: Hypocrisy.

 

You asked a very valid question here, it is not rhetorical, and I did not feel hate or racism in it, this is why I m going to answer, but that does not mean it was not based on mistaken info, or at least inaccurate,

the answer has two parts:

the first is in knowing why do Muslims go to live and work in Europe? each may have different reasons but the majority are escaping miserable conditions in their own original countries, and are looking for better life, not for a belief or a religion change, it is no secret that most of Islamic countries right now are ruled by dictators, I do not say Iran, or Saudi, but also Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, and so on..

and it is no secret that most of these dictators are being supported by the West, as the case in Egypt, and all North African Muslim countries in general, freedom of speech, is denied to these people in their original countries, but that does not mean they should drop this right when they are in other countries that granted it to all, this right should be granted to all, in anywhere.

if we want to blame the lack of freedom of speech in Islamic countries to Islam, then we will be making a huge mistake, the blame should fall on many other reasons, including the political regimes that are in charge in these countries,

if it was Islam, then those Muslims who immigrate to Europe, will not ask or demand for freedom of speech, since it will be against their religion, and if it was Islam, then it will be easier for them, or Muslim anywhere, to abandon Islam, than abandoning their rights including the right of speech,

we must notice, that this is not the only right that is denied on the majority of Muslims in most Muslim countries, but also the right in sharing the country's wealth, like in most rich oil Muslim Gulf states, where you can notice easily the inequality in sharing the country's wealth in the lack of good educational, or health care systems,

this is why you can see so many Muslim students go to continue their studies out, if they can afford it, does it mean if a European citizen, came to study in a Muslim country and did not find a good educational system, then all Muslim students in Europe should get a bad education?

the other part, which I felt it was inaccurate in your question, is pulling out the bible in a Muslim country, I hope you know that there are Christians in the majority of Muslim countries, and they can build Churches freely, as some of the posters showed you, and as been shown in other threads, there is nothing in Islam, that denies Christians, or the followers of any faith from practicing their worshiping freely,

Islam did not leave anything small or big, without addressing it, and in regard of non-Muslim rights, you can read this 13 parts article:

The Rights of Non-Muslims in Islam (part 1 of 13): An Islamic Basis

that does not mean that there are no incidents similar to the one you mentioned, but in short if there is an Islamic country that punish "Christians with death for pulling out a bible" then they are against Islam, not Muslims, and if some Muslims did something like this, then they did something against the core, and bases of Islam, and they should be punished. If that happened, then it happened by those people from whom Muslim emigrant to Europe escaped for the lack of freedom of speech, and not by the general Muslims whom many of them do not have this right.

we also should look at each incident thoroughly, I think you heard about the missionary activities that are being practiced in Iraq, and Afghanistan after these two Islamic countries been invaded for mostly false reasons, there is nothing wrong in missionary activities, every person have the right to speak about his own faith and call others to join, but it is very wrong to force it on others, when these missionary activities come after an invasion, some will see it as a try to force Christianity on their people, or a kind of a holy war, it is then when you read a piece of news like this one:

Four U.S. missionaries killed in Iraq

which implies that Muslims hate Christians, or kill Christians, for being Christians, or limit their freedom in worshiping or talking about their religion ..etc

but of course, you mostly won't see a video from Iraq, like the one below about missionaries activities there:

Radical Christian Missionaries in Iraq (German Television)

for people of Iraq, there is a link between these activities, and the practices of Christian missionaries in mid ages during the crusades campaigns, many see both as the same, or the current as a continue for the past despite the past proved that Muslims won't change their faith.

those radical missionaries failed miserably in planting their faith in the hearts and minds of their own people, and who left the so many abandoned or almost empty Churches in their original countries, and the huge percentage of their own people who do not believe - they found the chance in coming to practice what they can't practice in their own countries, making use of the absence of order and law in Iraq and Afghanistan, to spread what they call "light", thinking that since Muslims has so much faith in their religion, then they would probably have much faith in Christianity, and be better Christians than the so many disbelievers in their own countries,

it won't only fail in converting Muslims, but will also, generate tensions and hard feelings between Muslim and Christians in these two countries, which can spread easily to other Islamic countries.

they can call others to their religion, using internet, conferences, and invite people to attend them, whomever wants to attend will attend, and whomever do not want, will not, and not to force themselves on others, and appearing as if they were sitting on the top of US army tanks, and rockets to talk about Christianity with people whom know about Christianity much more than they do.

I hope I answered your question, I do not claim that I covered all reasons, there are for sure many others, but this can give you an idea.

 

I am from Pakistan and there are number of Christan you can see upto 100+ chirch in every major cities even 50+ chiristan schools (where they study bible) and not even that.. the chiritan schools are much better conditions than other school.. you cant blame that we kill them.. there is just one story that chiristan killed but that was just because of their personal matter not religion. (you can check chiristan murder rate in india and Pakistan) they are much happy in Pakistan and celebrate all events with Muslims like Christmas, Easter etc

 

I am from Islamabad, Pakistan have some Christian friends as well. What are you talking about?

I think he means Freedom of practicing your religion.

 

The world isnt blind, you just have to follow the trail and see who controls the media here

As far as Churches you can go to Syria and Lebanon and see a boatload of churches and they have never been bothered about speaking out about their religion there. Most of the fights there have been over political beliefs.