Former US President Bill Clinton in North Korea

So, do you think he will be successful?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8182716.stm

 

I hope Slick Willy will save them!

 

They are likely held captive as a bargaining tool for something. Bill has a history of giving things in return for getting things. Its part of the reason the Chinese have all our missile and space information.

Frankly these people should have really known better.

 

Slick Willy saved the day!

North Korea pardons US reporters

 

But at what cost?

 

It's a simple positive that these 2 journalists have been freed.

North Korea is simply a dangerous rogue state. Nobody within the US nor any administration has successfully negotiated with them nor successfully kept them from developing nukes and/or selling trading these nukes to other rogue states.

Good work Bill Clinton in getting these two journalists freed from N Korea. Good work to the administration in pulling this off. Its too bad China won't put more pressure on the North Koreans to act like some modest reflection of human beings.

 

What was accomplished?

The US officially apologized to NK and KIM. (at least that's what NK news reports) But to just about everyone, its pretty clear that BC apologized to KIM and NK.
The US gave NK some great PR and some good propaganda.
KIM now looks like a hero to his people.

Like I said, "but at what cost".

US Presidents, past or present do not apologize, nor do they negotiate with terrorists. That's why no one has "successfully negotiated with them", because US policy is that we do NOT negotiate with terrorists.

But at what cost.. Sad.

 

The US values lives. The North Korean administration doesn't. The civilized people of the world rejoice.

Who gives a cr@p what the North Koreans do or say with regard to what Bill Clinton said.

Two Americans were saved. That is in keeping with our ethics that value the lives of our own people. In fact in the US military it goes with out saying to risk yourself to save the lives of fallen comrades. It is in keeping with our ethics.

Currently if NK was to go to the extreme and attack any of our allies such as South Korea or Japan we would bomb the cr@p out of them. Nothing has changed except that 2 American lives were saved.

Good job.

North Korea still sucks and is not to be trusted. Nothing has changed.

 

I'm obviously no getting through. 'C'est la vie.

 

I'm not convinced that Slick Willy's visit will have any negative effect on future negotiations with North Korea. Here's an interesting article by the LA Times, that gives some details of what was happening in the background. I'm happy they are home!

Video of Euna Lee and Laura Ling reuniting with family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgbXLWZtv0Y

 

I think both of you are missing the point there. There are no "negotiations" with North Korea, that's where the "negative" comment comes from.

Even the President has distanced himself from this referring to it as a "private humanitarian mission."

Ultimately even though the US does not negotiate with Terrorists, the President for some reason chose to not only negotiate but sent a former US President to do the negotiating.

I'm basing my belief that this could have negative affects on past history. Here is one way it could have a negative affect. Anyone remember when Carter disrupted Clinton's nuclear talks with North Korea back in 94'? This bungling by carter lead to the "Agreed Framework". The "Agreed Framework" for those that do not remember gave both the North and other later defined "axis of evil" terror mations the necessary economic resources and political power to create their nuclear programs.

North Korea of course ignored that framework from the get go. How many recall how NK then duped the Bush admin into 6 Party talks promising to end its nuclear program in exchange for more economic and political clout and benefits.

You don't run around and reward unacceptable behavior. That's why we do not negotiate with people like this. When we do, we end up paying for it in the end by rewarding more and more nations for their unacceptable behavior. Obama's being played and doesn't even realize it.

Obama on the other hand truly believes he played North Korea and Kim. Obama thinks he's going to benefit from bringing us this much closer to talks and negotiations. What he's doing is playing into Kim's hand again which is going to take, take, take, giving nothing in return.

Ask yourself this question also. What made these Korean, ( I mean American) Journalists / hostages warrant presidential intervention? I mean, aren't there litterally hundreds of other Americans held captive around the world? Why are aren't we also saving them as well?

Is working for Algores' newspaper a pre-requisite for safe return? I don't get it.

 

Because it really matters if Kim Jong Il gets a little more clout among his people.... These are the same people that are starving and dying in villages across the country. Making inhuman sacrifices for this man.

Trying to spin this into a bad thing just because Bill Clinton did it and not some Republican senator or former Republican president is about as ridiculous as trying to get rational people to believe Obama was born in Kenya.


Your little slip (I mean on purpose) adding of them being Korean to make them a little less American added just the right touch of class.

Jesus fucking christ dude...

 

Ok, Jeremy, I don't know. Time will tell, right? I feel all sappy, but this picture kind of made me tear up...



For any Americans captured overseas, I think we should do what we can to get them back. To have Slick Willy negotiate with Kim was a concession, but I don't think it was too high of a price to pay. Laura Ling and Euna Lee are back with their family now, and I'm glad.

 

I nearly vomit every time I hear that woman (I don't know her name) make that "emotional", theatrical and scripted speech. Is it possible for an American to do anything without acting like they are in a film?

It's good that they have need released but there is no need for the theatrics.

 

I've heard that when you take english people out of england and expose them to healthy doses of sunshine, they start to show emotion as well after a month or two.

 

We don't do emotion. Even people crying at funerals are criticised, it's not very English. Especially feighed emotion accompanied by looking into the middle distance with well planned pauses.

Maybe you guys just can't do Senserity, but when you attemp stuff like that it just looks so fake and forced.

 

I'm afraid you're a dying breed, stox. Even back in the 90s the austere English emotional facade cracked when Princess Diana died. Jesus, you guys did overstated, sappy American sensationalism better than we do. You probably kicked two or three people in the nuts over there while that was going on. I know you were probably a kid, but still.

Now you have Susan Boyle, a Scot, sweeping the nation with her inspirational underdog story. WTF. You're one 80s-style action movie about a rogue RAF pilot away from a state of hysteria, where you're all storming the streets, waving the Union Jack and excitably proclaiming how proud you are to be British.




P.S. France sucks.

 

Hmmm....Stox, not sure where you've gotten this stuff tonight.

Pretty simple, really, seems to me. Lots of folks like living, and like returning to their families. Under moments of extreme joy, sadness, etc., folks tend to be, well, emotional.

Really?

Really?

Really?

C'mon, pal. Your lot isn't as stoic as you'd like us to believe, and we're not all Hollywood wannabees. Peoples is people.

Edit: Uh, yeah, what Logic said. See image 3.

And let's all have a pint. I'm buying, but only if we promise to cry in our beer.

Double edit: Uh, no, not what Logic said, re: France. Vive La Marseillaise, Ossau Iraty, et cassoulet de la ferme! Oh - et aussi, le musique des manouches! Donc, pas de bière pour toi, M. Logic!

 

I don't understand French so I'm just assuming all that means "I surrender!!!".

I kid, NPT. I kid.

 

Hahahah - no, it means "I eat stinky stuff, and do it proudly, the French way."

Trouble for me is I'm both kraut and frog - so the war inside is interminable.