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Ignorance Now, Can be Eternally Deadly, if you don't know...

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Nehemiah, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. #1
    . . .the Real Person and Purpose of JESUS CHRIST, "The Son of God"/"The Son of Man"

    "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20)

    It is significant that although Christ clearly taught that He was the unique Son of God, He most frequently referred to Himself as Son of man, earnestly desiring that people understand His true and representative humanity.

    The very first use of the phrase is in Psalm 8:4: "What is . . . the son of man, that thou visitest him?" Although David may have been thinking of all "sons of Adam" in general, the writer of Hebrews applied the passage specifically to Christ (Hebrews 2:6), "that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9).

    In order to save lost men, God in Christ had to become man through supernatural incarnation.
    Then, as perfect, sinless man, He could represent us before God, finally tasting death for every man.

    The vital importance of the incarnation is affirmed by John: "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" (1 John 4:2-3). It is noteworthy that Satan and his evil spirits would recognize Christ as "the Son of God (Matthew 4:3; 8:28-29)", but never as "the Son of man"! This reluctance seems also to characterize all the occultic philosophies of the so-called "New Age" movement, as well as all ancient and modern pantheistic religions. They speak glibly of "the Christ" as a spirit which might come on many, but bitterly refuse to acknowledge that the man Jesus was actually the Son of man, God incarnate.

    Finally, it is thrilling to realize that, although He only became the Son of man through His incarnation, He will always remain the Son of man! John saw Him in His glory--as we shall see Him in eternity--as "one like unto the Son of man" (Revelation 1:13; 14:14).

    Serious comments and questions are welcomed! What say you?
     
    Nehemiah, Jul 15, 2009 IP
  2. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #2
    i would love to talk about the parts that i colorized. if you can handle it.


    it seems that he might have wanted to clarify that he is not son of god. that would be natural as a jewish person he could have seen the problem with such claim.
    also the part about satan would point in the same direction.
    what is most interesting is the part that you seem to think god has to do and started to be able to do things that he was not able to do before he became jesus.
    so in another world you feel that god was incapable and inadequate before he became jesus. and mixing of god with man increased power of god.
    and why he could not represent man before himself if he can do anything.
     
    pizzaman, Jul 15, 2009 IP
  3. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #3
    I think I can handle that.


    Why be the product of "the virgin birth" and then attempt to "clarify that he is not son of god"?

    Satan knows who JESUS CHRIST is, he used to reside in Heaven with HIM.

    That's you misunderstanding of what you believe that I was attempting to show.

    No.
     
    Nehemiah, Jul 15, 2009 IP
  4. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #4
    I have to say I didn't miss the preaching when it was gone.....

    Call it ignorance, whatever you want. I think most Atheists (or whoever) understand the so-called consequences and really won't be swayed by such threats as it being "eternally deadly" not to know or believe in god. Can we try a different tactic now????

    It's just like my parents threatening me with a night full of sitting at the table if I didn't eat my veggies. I was able to sit there way longer than they were and I won every time. Threats don't work....
     
    Firegirl, Jul 15, 2009 IP
  5. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #5
    we'll see

    i do not know. but since i am going to assume that he is the authority in his relationship with god, i am going to take his word when he say he is son of man. you on the other hand is trying to twist it to fit your interpretation.

    and who do you belive satan or jesus? also what is the role of satan? what are the characteristics of satan? what does he want?

    it is exactly what you said. say it in a way that i can not misunderstand it, and can't come to the same conclusion.
    then why? god already had moses and many more prophets. why the change?
     
    pizzaman, Jul 15, 2009 IP
    wisdomtool likes this.
  6. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #6
    Although JESUS CHRIST never (in recorded Scripture) used the term "THE SON of GOD" to describe/designate HIMSELF as being so; but HE never rejected the claim whenever it was made of HIM.
    The fact of the matter is that when HE came the first time is was not to lay claim to being THE SON of GOD, but to lay claim to be THE ONE WHO comes from GOD in order "to give his life a ransom for many"; and that HE had to do as "THE Son of Man", rather than as "THE SON of GOD"; as "The Son of Man" HE could die the death meant for you and I, and thereby satisfy the demand(s) of "the law" which states, "the soul that sins, it shall die (Ezekiel 18:4)". JESUS CHRIST came first as "Savior/Sacrifice---The Son of Man"; when HE returns, it will be as "KING of Kings and LORD of Lord---THE SON of GOD"!

    I believe THE WORD of GOD. . .in its Entirety; Satan, "the accuser"; "the evil one"; the former Lucifer; "the devil"; the first to sin; "the father of lies", "the thief", etc. His "role" is understood by the names that he is called; and he only wants, ". . .to steal, kill, and destroy...".

    The problem with "moses and many more prophets" is that they had sins just like you and I. . .even Abraham, and David. No man, in all of their trying, was able to fix the mess that Adam, listening to a upright walking talking snake (controlled by Satan), got himself, Eve, and all of us into. Ergo, GOD had to become a Man fight the fight, and to show us, by human example, the proper use of the "dominion" that HE had given us back in Genesis/Bereshit 1:26 (and Adam gave away in Genesis/Bereshit 3).
     
    Nehemiah, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  7. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #7
    funny! you just presented multiple things him refering to jesus as son of man. you just do not want to accept it.
    that is the point and as you said he never claimed he is son of god either. it is other people that are making this claim. and he seems to reject it but people want to find a loophole in what he say.
    that is right so is satan lying when he say he is son of god and are the people that make such claim under his influence.
    a-god pretending to be human to make an example of how humans have to behave? seems deceitful. did he lose his powers when he became human or it was just the shape. seems someone is pretending and more inline of what satan might do.
    b-here you go again thinking god had to do something a certain way. or god wanted something to happen and it didn't. that does not sound like god to me
    c-then why is there a judgment day. it seems that god knew that even with this approach people are not going to behave the way he wanted them. so he knew this will not work either. this does not seem to be a logical reason if he already knew it will fail.
    ================================
    do you believe if john or peter or anyone else after jesus was also prophets?
     
    pizzaman, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  8. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #8
    Then why do you not show us where HE "reject it", instead of just giving us only your opinion?

    Where is the Scripture where Satan "say" JESUS CHRIST is "THE SON of GOD".

    Where, in Scripture, is this "pretending"? Show me please.

    1) GOD IS THE GOD of order; HE does everything, "decently and in order". Do you not know and understand any Scriptures?
    GOD IS HOLY; All of Mankind was messed up (became imperfect) and deserving of death; Only GOD [PERFECTION] can satisfy GOD; JESUS CHRIST became a Man because mankind was messed up and deserving of death; JESUS CHRIST IS, and remained, GOD, because only GOD can satisfy GOD. Now then, does that "sound like god" to you. . .or are you leaning to your finite understanding, apart from Scripture?

    Again, you do err, not knowing nor understand THE WORD nor THE POWER of GOD. As you call it, "judgment day" is not about merely "behave", but about who accepted and who rejected what had already been judged: Sin!
    Btw, what appears to be or not be "logical" to you pertaining to The Things of GOD, is of no consequence except to yourself and those who think the way you do. It is written, "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1Corinthians 1:25);

    "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned." (1Corinthians 2:14)";

    and "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness. (1Corinthians 3:19)"
     
    Nehemiah, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  9. PHPGator

    PHPGator Banned

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    #9
    You can read any of the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.... why was Jesus crucified? It was because he did not deny being the son of God, or the savior that was prophecied about in the Old Testament. Even historians who are not Christians will tell you this.

    John 15:1 - "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

    What was probably mere hours before he was crucified he prayed this in front of his disciples: John 17:1 - "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you"

    There are numerous other examples, but I think this is enough to show who Jesus, according to the bible, was.
     
    PHPGator, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  10. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #10
    checkout blue
    check out red
    checkout green
    now are you saying god became man and lost all his powers.? if not then he did not become man
    then was he pretending or what would you call it.
    if god wanted man to be perfect, then man would be perfect. doesn't that sound like god to you.
    so why did god came as jesus?
    so you feel we have to accept god out of fear only.
    there is no other reason.
    you accept what you preach is confusing and feel that god wants you to accept him in state of confusion and out of fear. kind of like getting your date drunk.
    doesn't seem like god to me, satan maybe.
     
    pizzaman, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  11. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #11
    but we know that at the beginning of Christianity not everyone agreed to this idea. and every writing to the contrary has been destroyed. only what supported this theory was allowed to remain. so we do not have a full accounting. and why did some of early Christians disagree. what evidence did they present. why was these evidence destroyed?
    ps nobody that is not christian say jesus was son of god or god.
     
    pizzaman, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  12. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Hail Satan!
     
    Jackuul, Jul 16, 2009 IP
  13. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #13
    Necrolollypop, i can't help but think your posts would be better suited scrawled in human excrement under your floorboards rather than on public display.
     
    stOx, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  14. FreePornDDL.com

    FreePornDDL.com Peon

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    #14
    I agree with you st0x
    what the hell freedom of speech fair enough but making the general population stupider by posting this rubbish is just not right not right at all.

    if there was a god im sure he wouldnt want you serving him Necrolollypop hahaha
     
    FreePornDDL.com, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  15. PHPGator

    PHPGator Banned

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    #15
    According to the bible, there was still some people trying to mislead others after Jesus died. The book of Galatians tells us that many were trying to mix the Old Testament law with the way that people are to be justified (commonly referred to as "being saved") in the New Testament days (anytime after Jesus died on the cross). So I'm sure there were some writings that disagreed what Jesus said about himself. There were probably many people like the Pharisees who obviously rejected what Jesus said to the point that it was what caused him to be put on the cross. These religious leaders, so called "Christians" of that time period, were the ones who hated Jesus that much.

    Granted, there are reasons why the books I referenced in my previous post are held in higher esteem probably. It is widely accepted by Christians and non-Christians alike that those who wrote Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John probably spent more time with him than anyone else on earth at that time. John and Peter were probably two of Jesus' closest friends, and Paul, who wrote 2/3 of the New Testament books did a lot of teaching, speaking, and traveling with Peter as well (according to the book of Acts). So there is some basis on why these books are probably more accurate in teaching what Jesus spoke about than others.

    I'm not exactly sure which books you are referring to, for sure. The apocrypha maybe? I do know that you are accurate in the statement that there were numerous other books written during this time period. I'm not aware of any of them being destroyed. I believe many are simply not in the bible. I have read a book about the books of the apocrypha specifically and why they were not included in the bible, so I might be able to answer some questions on those if they are the ones you are referring to. Thanks for the nice and polite posts, it's refreshing! :)
     
    PHPGator, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  16. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #16
    LOL. Even if this imaginary person existed, he would have been more the product of Roman soldier having some fun than the virgin birth. ;) :D
     
    gworld, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  17. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #17
    The virgin birth was so obviously Mary on the backfoot after Joseph questioned her regarding a surprise pregnancy. Mary was a slut and Joseph was a cretin for believing her, if they even existed at all, which they almost certainly didn't.

    Virgin births have long been a staple of the superhero myths religions like to addopt. Christians talk as if their particular version of it was the first. Like with many aspects of Christianity it's nothing more than a plagerism of more ancient cults
     
    stOx, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  18. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #18
    first of all it is according to what was permitted in the bible and second it is simply lead christianity in a different direction not mislead
    the only rason that you say old testament is no longer applies is because of the decision that was made to exclude the ideas that were contrary to the concept of being saved and that was being promoted. if the idea of jesus is god or son of god is not valid then the old testament applies and idea of being saved is false. their idea is false because it was rejected , and it was rejected because it was false. and to say that some of these Christians hated jesus is ridicules.
    so was the guy that betrayed him. does not mean a thing. their teaching is valued more because in that time some people decided that they should reject the opposing thought. they decided that it would be easier to be a christian.
    i am not very familiar to what happened at that time and my knowledge is very limited. i just know that there was two classes of beliefs in regard to jesus and one survived and the other did not. i thought that they destroyed the writings of other disciples. i might be wrong and if so correct me
     
    pizzaman, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  19. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Peon

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    #19
    Sure its GOD; remember that HE IS HIM and you're not; plus you've just shown all of us believers that, the one you're most influenced by, and are closest to, is the one you'll always believe; so I can believe and understand you when you claim that it "doesn't seem like god" to you.

    It would give you better understanding of them, yes? But at least you "think". BTW, it is written, "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. (Proverbs 23:7)".
    So thank you for showing that when you can't intelligently debate nor refute the issues at hand, you resort to swearing, vulgarity, name-calling/renaming, and just downright sheer idiotic behavior. . .and you seem to have a follower coming up.

    After reading just this comment alone, and laying claim to my "freedom of speech", I'm compelled to comment that: "stupider" is as "stupider" does.

    And you know this how? If you're going to speculate like that, why not use the present tense, "is" rather than the past tense, "was"?

    Even secular History shows/proves that HE IS; "Catholics" even pray to "the virgin mother"; so what are you, an unbeliever of documented history, as well as a hater of all "Catholics"?
     
    Nehemiah, Jul 17, 2009 IP
  20. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #20
    just as i thought you can not handle it. i presented nothing but what you said, and about nothing other than what you did. and just accepted what you tried to present. time to reflect on your beliefs not mine.
    and you are in no position to talk about debating intelligently.
    also Catholics are Christians.
    further more being born with no father and even to a virgin mother is no longer beyond the scope of science. no big deal. and when the first doctor performs the procedure, no one will call him/her the father.
     
    pizzaman, Jul 17, 2009 IP