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United States Heading towards a Depression?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by decoyjames, Dec 27, 2007.

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  1. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3501
    And who is going to bail out the federal government? Ill answer for you: no one: Will either have to hyperinflate our way out of this mess or raise taxes drastically and cut federal spending massively at the same time. Whether its in 1 year or 10 years from now it will be done eventually.
     
    domainer_10, May 19, 2009 IP
  2. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #3502
    The WSJ took a look at the commercial real estate portfolio of large banks about 2 weeks ago and smaller banks today.

    More predicted bad news. In today's article the WSJ used the same stress test parameters as the feds did w/ large banks, and applied it to potential bad loans for smaller banks.

    Contingent on how things go....the WSJ sees lots of smaller banks being unnable to cover losses on commercial real estate loans over the next year or two.

    The total asset value of the 900 plus small banks analyzed is less than that of the 19 or so large banks....but it is simply more bad news.

    Don't see any good news here. Vacancy is rising across the board w/ regard to office, retail, flex-tech, and industrial space. On top of that, there is going to be a lot of space on the market formerly used for auto sales by dealers whose dealerships have been revoked. Mostly land with not much in improvements...but still a lot of additional vacancy that doesn't fall into a neat category....but still represents a lot of real estate value across the land.
     
    earlpearl, May 19, 2009 IP
  3. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3503
    I don't think commercial real estate defaults will cripple the general economy like homes did because people were using their homes appreciation to borrow from and to spend thinking there house would go up when they sold it.

    It will hurt the banks though which could cripple lending, so in that regard it will have some impact on the general economy.
     
    domainer_10, May 19, 2009 IP
  4. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3504
    By the way anyone know why banks like bank of america and american express even bother laying off workers as they receive bailouts? Don't they get a free bailout from the government. Why would they need to do anything except business as usual and let the government continue to pay whatever losses they get? Am I missing something?
     
    domainer_10, May 19, 2009 IP
  5. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3505
    Not everyone wants to be socialist.
     
    Mia, May 20, 2009 IP
  6. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #3506
    With whose money?
     
    Blogmaster, May 20, 2009 IP
  7. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #3507
    The government's of course. I see inflation as a welcome friend. If the currency looses value, the Rich loose a lot more than the poor, since they have a lot more. Its all about equalization my friend. If things get really bad, we'll just give the poor more money so they can get by.
     
    Obamanation, May 20, 2009 IP
  8. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #3508
    Yeah, we all know the government has all the money.

    If the government can get the economy where everyone works at a bank or for the government, in an office, in a high-rise, in a city, then everyone will be wealthy.

    The government can make everyone wealthy if it wanted.
     
    PioneerGold, May 20, 2009 IP
  9. ~kev~

    ~kev~ Well-Known Member

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    #3509
    Back in the middle 1990s, when the north American free trade agreement was signed, economic experts were forecasting a depression.

    When president clinton and president bush SR. kept giving china most favored trade nation status - economic experts were forecasting a depression.

    As more and more factories closed, economic experts forecast a depression.

    As the USA kept giving aid to foreign countries, and taking care of illegal immigrants, economic experts were forecasting a depression.

    As house flipping became a get rich quick scheme and pyramid scam, economic experts warned that nobody would be able to afford housing.

    OPEC has fixed the oil prices so that its expensive to drive to work. But as long as the exxon stock holders are getting their payments, nobody cares.

    You can not give your job away, give all of your money away, take food out of your kids mouths and still expect to still pay your bills. The big companies such as GE, microsoft, GM, Dodge, Ford,,,, have all pushed for free trade so they could get cheap labor. But now, nobody can afford to buy their products. Housing has gotten so expensive that only the upper middle class - rich can afford to buy a home. Every part of our society has been driving the USA into a depression, but nobody cared. Well, no its here. And I have news for you, its only going to get worse. Until something is done to end free trade, stabilize the price of housing and oil, its only going to get worse.
     
    ~kev~, May 20, 2009 IP
  10. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3510
    Wel they already have become one when they asked for bailouts. So what is their incentive to do anything other then sit on their hands and laugh at the situation?
     
    domainer_10, May 20, 2009 IP
  11. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3511
    You don't know simple economics. Inflation hurts the poor not the rich. People who are rich have tons of assets that go up in value during inflation. They also are the FIRST to receive the money before inflation goes up. look at all the banks receiving tehse bailouts. if this money had hit the GENERAL economy first we would have seen inflation like crazy right now. Because it only hit the upper class wall street elite at the moment they are living high off the hog off of tax money. By the time it trickles to us it will be worthless.

    Get a clue man and realize obama and his banker buddies are destroying america.
     
    domainer_10, May 20, 2009 IP
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  12. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3512
    Not everyone asked for bailouts. And in the case of a government "loan", its not necessarily a bailout. A loan that IS paid back, is not a "bailout", and certainly does not warrant the government dictating how you run your business.
     
    Mia, May 21, 2009 IP
  13. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #3513
    You've forgotten one important thing. Those assets are taxable. In a high inflation economy, Barack can just tax the crap out of the assets of those tax evading wealthy and pass on that money as entitlements to the poor. Again, the playing feild gets leveled. He's already going after people keeping their money abroad in any way shape or form. That money will be repatriated to inflate along with the rest of our dollars. They will pay taxes on those foreign assets, or they will have those foreign assets seized.

    I realize the rules in your post have always applied in the past, but there is a new sheriff in town and I fully believe he will collect the tax dollars needed to keep the poor in an acceptable quality of life.
     
    Obamanation, May 21, 2009 IP
  14. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3514

    It doesn't work that easily. For one thing there isn't enough rich people to to tax high to make up for all the spent money. Remember a lot of the money we spend is borrowed from foreign investors. Also, by the time there is an attempt to tax the wealthy it will already have leaked out into the general economy at least partially. Secondly, raising taxes dramatically on the rich overnight will not make the economy better, it could even make it worse. Which is why obama hasn't even raised taxes yet on the wealthy, like he said he would. The money is already floating to millions of the upper class now. By the time it hits us in a short time, we'll be doomed.
     
    domainer_10, May 21, 2009 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3515
    That's why Obama is taking the middle class. There IS enough money to be had if you hit them. Soda Tax, Tobacco Tax, Energy Tax, Gas Tax, Driving Too Far Tax, Big Car Tax, Getting Health Benefits Tax. Next thing you know he'll be taxing births and giving out tax deductions for abortions.
     
    Mia, May 21, 2009 IP
  16. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #3516
    Of course not. I said earlier, we just print the money and let inflation handle the rest.

    Inflation handles that problem too. They loaned us money that was worth something. We pay them back in money that is worth less.

    Well, I'm not sure what you call the Obama tax plan. It is as good as law, though i'll admit income tax doesn't come until next April. Secondly, I'm not so sure the economy has to get better. The goal should be social justice, not an economy that flaunts our wealth in the face of the world. That said, Obama has a strategy for the economy. He has said many times, he will not follow a trickle down model, but rather give the money to the poorest in our nation who are, at the end of the day, the most official national resource we have and the building blocks of a strong economy! Personally, I'm looking forward to my paycheck!
     
    Obamanation, May 21, 2009 IP
  17. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #3517
    Obama will do his part. Bush did his part.

    Everyone is entitled to a certain quality of life in the United States according to Bush and Obama as long as they are part of the system.

    Bush tried to get everyone in the system through wars, stimulus packages, and deregulation (bankruptcy laws, medicare drug benefit).

    Obama is trying to get everyone in the system through entitlements, bailouts, and stimulus packages.

    People who are not in the system (private business) are seeing a standard of living drop.

    People in the system (publicly traded companies, banks, government workers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, prison workers) are seeing a rise in the standard of livng.

    Our whole economy can be rich if everyone worked for a bank or the government.
     
    PioneerGold, May 21, 2009 IP
  18. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3518
    Yeah he is killing the entrepreneural spirit and "American dream". Why aspire to anything anymore? The point of america was not that everyone would be rich, but that everyone could have a CHANCE at being rich and successful. Now its getting to the point where NO one has that opportunity.


    Sort of off topic, but look at how people outside the system (entrepreneurs) are treated right now. Self employed people can't get unemployment. These leeches who work 9 to 5 often get unions and get up to 1.5 years of unemployment benefits due to extensions from the federal government. most are not looking for jobs they are just sitting pretty getting all this free money for a year and half. Thats why you aren't seeing any real protesting out there like there should be. Everyone is at home getting their free money. Yet there is no money for recent graduates or people who run a business who went bankrupt or self employed people who seen a drastic drop in earnings. But yet these people get free money for a year and half. Another example is welfare. I believe the stimulus package has taken away all welfare reform requirements from the 90's. Now people can be on it indefinitely.
     
    domainer_10, May 21, 2009 IP
  19. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #3519
    Stale thinking. Europe has been way ahead of the US for a very long time in this matter. The whole pipe dream of hitting it big doesn't happen for the many Americans and as a result, they have a lower average quality of life than people in similar straits in Europe. Sure Obama is getting rid of some of the highs, but hes filling in some of the lows. I believe Germans enjoy a 37 hour work week with a months paid vacation in the first year of employment. Doesn't that sound like something most people in the US would like?


    Nor should they. The government has always encouraged some behaviors and discouraged others with its tax policies. These self employed and small business people represent the stale thinking of the republican party, and they need to get with the program. Get a college education, get a job with a big company, the government, or a union, and step under the protective umbrella of our government. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

    These "leeches" you refer to represent a very large subsection of your fellow Americans. Most of us voted Obama into office for the very actions you are describing. I'm sure you'll spit out something to defend your small(and shrinking) subset of wealthy Americans, but the rest of the nation wants and needs these benefits. Last time I checked, this is a representative Democracy.
     
    Obamanation, May 21, 2009 IP
  20. domainer_10

    domainer_10 Peon

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    #3520
    I'm not wealthy, so I'm not defending them. Its nice to see that you ASSume just because I believe in entrepreneurship and the right to pursue success freely that means Im only defending the rich. I'm defending what is right and fair. Your communist attititude is wrong, unfair, and what is wrong with Obama and his liberal elites.

    And by the way Ive always been against the banker bailouts. Im sure your ok with that though since your buddy Obama is doing it. So much for you believing in what you said earlier. You do realize that only helps the rich not us common folk. Lets not forget that Obama received more money by Fannie and Freddie Mac in his short senate term than anyone else during that period.
     
    domainer_10, May 21, 2009 IP
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