I have a problem with an open source application I had built. The problem is.., everything i ask the developer to do for me with adding features, costs me another 1500 - 2000 dollars. Jomlu (I think) is the technology we used. So.., I want to hear from business owners, not programmers looking to low bid me on work, on what software you are using, if it's open source or other. I need business email with strong spam controls. Sheduling, Workflow.. and an customer system so I can track calls, notes and such. I'm looking into a managed service right now..., this seems to be all the rage. But want to find one that has lots of functions and good support. Thanks for the help. Samson
How much research have you done into open source CMSs in the past? you might find something like Wordpress with a large element of free plugings does the job fine
Yes I am a programmer and I know you don't want our opinions but I am going to give it anyway because I think you may be misinformed by your current programmer. Using an open source platform such as Joomla is supposed to make things easier for you as the owner rather than complicate matters and force you to use the same programmer. If your system was custom developed from scratch it would be much more complicated to find a programmer to take it over and make adjustments to it because there would be a big learning curve. Because it is based on Joomla you simply need to find another programmer who has experience with it. The learning curve would be much smaller because they would only need to learn about the non-standard changes you have already had completed. I would suggest going to somewhere like Scriptlance.com and posting a project explaining a bit about your current system and the changes that you want to be made. Programmers can then bid on your project and you can question them before making a decision as to which programmer is best suited to your needs. HTH
I agree. Using an open source CMS is supposed to make things easier and cheaper. Some don't like it simply because it's open source and not 100% built on your needs. You end up with a lot of weird hacks simply because the code was not meant originally to do that and should have been rewritten instead. That and the fact that everytime a security issue/vulnerability is found in the open source software you are using your application is at risk. Point is it should be cheaper. 1-2 thousand dollars for a small modification is way too much. I don't know where you found your developer but in countries like mine (Romania), India, Bulgaria etc 1000$ will buy you about a month or 2 of development time from one middle programmer (middle = a few years of experience). Thanks 8 hours a day. At least those are the rates we go by. 1-2 months are enough to build rather large applications from scratch, 100% by your needs. Your programmer is ripping you off!
I agree. Using an open source CMS is supposed to make things easier and cheaper. Some don't like it simply because it's open source and not 100% built on your needs. You end up with a lot of weird hacks simply because the code was not meant originally to do that and should have been rewritten instead. That and the fact that everytime a security issue/vulnerability is found in the open source software you are using your application is at risk. Point is it should be cheaper. 1-2 thousand dollars for a small modification is way too much. I don't know where you found your developer but in countries like mine (Romania), India, Bulgaria etc 1000$ will buy you about a month or 2 of development time from one middle programmer (middle = a few years of experience). Thanks 8 hours a day. At least those are the rates we go by. 1-2 months are enough to build rather large applications from scratch, 100% by your needs. Your programmer is ripping you off!
Funny how I asked business owners to reply but got developers..... I appreciate all the replies..., but here's my problem. I'm sure I can find a cheaper developer, sounds like guys like Pitagora are a great value here (thanks Pitagora), but I really want to focus on my business at hand and not have to manage the development process.., playing with open source, worrying about working with people outside the US , etc.. My experience proved that open source masquerades as a "I can do everything you need, and I'm free" technology.., but at the end of the day a company without technical expertise will need to hire a developer/project manager to make the project happen. In addition.., I need to buy or license a server to put everything on. I know this isn't a lot of money but it does take up quite a bit of my time. I have a server but I've been told I need a better one.. that's another 2k right there. Since my initial post I've been looking at Saas product, and I've got to admit it looks too good to be true. So I'm wading carefully in the Saas pool if you know what I mean. I found the following hosted Intranet companies so far... intraplace.com infostreet.com gotomeeting.com So far InfoStreet has the best offering and has integration of personal tools with their CRM app..., which is what I was trying to get my developer to do using Jomla. The bottom line is I need someone to build and host it, back it up and provide disaster recovery, and live people in the US to call if I have a problem or need training. Thanks for the feedback. I will look at Wordpress, but my gut feel is it's just like Jomla and if I have problems there no support other then the Open Source community. Thanks again, Samson
Step 1: "I think" is not an appropriate place to start. If several thousand dollars a month is a big deal to you, you should know exactly where it is going to and where you can find resources for it. $1,500-$2k per Joomla feature addition seems freaking insane. I'm a programmer and a business owner. I write my own stuff a lot. I test a lot of various software, but to be frank, I'm not really satisfied with either open source or commercial web-driven CMS offerings. Don't get me wrong, Drupal is an absolutely beautiful piece of work, with amazing potential, but it still has a lot to handle regarding usability and flexibility. The cost advantage of open source is that no one can lock you in. Joomla is not more expensive, you have a programmer who is likely charging you far more than their worth.
With Saas, you are completely and utterly at the mercy of the provider. If something happens to them, or they raise their prices to a level you can't afford, or if you absolutely require a feature that they will not support... You have no way to audit their security, or who they host with, for example. I'm just waiting for an exploit to bring an entire SAAS company down, along with most of the businesses it supports. While your current situation is, of course, not the best, I would weigh the cost of a SAAS solution against finding a competent technician (seriously, a new server already? I wonder if your friend simply can't optimize...) and providing them with employment and a budget. Anyway, I took a look at thems. Insisted on redirecting away from English for me in at least one browser. This sort of technical incompetence is not a good sign if you want to use whatever it is for CRM. They may have what you want, but I'm uncertain. It only costs you $50 to try out the sum total of their features though. ...I don't think this is what you are looking for. You are actually looking to manage CRM through your website, aren't you? Wordpress is just a blog, regardless. I think you're looking for something more like this?
Ouch, Joomla is the last thing you want to use for that sort of thing in the first place. I am trying to remember one in particular. I will see if I can dig it out of my emails... but... there are tons of out of the box solutions that will do what you need and alot more! We are a web development and marketing firm. I handle business models, SEO, and marketing for the most part. I can provide you with exactly what you need. I just need to poke around a bit. I will chime back in shortly. For the cost of one modification you could have purchased an enterprise level app that you now own. Most of them are open source. This is pretty darn amazing though not only because someone tried to use joomla to cobble stuff together, but.... because there are several pages of apps you can download, install in about 10 minutes, configure properly in 30 and then call it a day. Nigel
the question is "stuck with open source" but your developers fault in not choosing the right platform at the first place. Seeing your requirements, joomla is not just perfect. As Vekseid said drupal is really nice piece of code doing unimaginable things from library management to even tracking records of animals in farm. Open source shouldn't be blamed. Its the developer only and another 1000$ its just too much for simple modifictaion.
Yeah, this is not about open source, but is about choosing the right developer. It's like saying "My car dealer sold me a lexus to use for ploughing my corn field. It is constantly beaking down and he charges me $5,000 each time to fix it. Lexus sucks!"
Wow.., had no idea this forum was so active. I really appreciate all the help everyone is giving me. I agree that my current situation is not ideal. The developer who built the system that is now limping along and barely functional is definitely not a good match for our company..., but don't want to say that they are ripping us off.., maybe it boils down to poor communication. I disagree with some of the Saas comments though. If the provider goes under, yes, I'm up a creek. But how is this different with any other host ? The server is not under my control physically, so either way if the saas provider, or server host provider goes out of business, I'm in the same mess. All providers do backups, all allow you to keep these backups in a safe place like a third party storage company. So I think the bottom line is personal preference.., but the risk is the same. I have a friend that is using Saas and he is raving about it. And this makes my decision really hard since I have money invested in my existing system. My big problem, which I brought up last time, is that I don't want the details of technical development or project management in my head. If I use another coder I have to "manage" that project and resource. On the other hand, Saas is running from minute one. It either does what you want or not. I think I might have posted this thread in the wrong forum. It seems like everyone here is a developer.., and opposed managed technologies. Hope I didn't offend anyone. I'll check out rentacoder and see what they have to offer. But it sounds just like Elance. Any other ideas ? Appreciate the help. Samson
No, because you are capable of performing your own backups in this scenario. There is no reason - indeed, no excuse - not to have your own sufficiently complete backups. I know dissecting posts like this is a bit asinine, but I need to point this out. All providers claim to do backups. A Canadian VPS provider was recently wiped out by a disgruntled employee. They certainly claimed to have backups. Again, claims, versus proof. The backups for my ~3 gig database are sitting on my hard drive. There's no claim about being offsite, I have backups to two of the world's largest communities sitting in a different city because I physically put them there with my own scripts and the resulting logs shove themselves into my face every morning. Your current investment is pretty much a write off. Your developer chose Joomla (mistake #1)... It's just a money sink. Opinions on SAAS or no, everyone with any remote competence in this thread is going to tell you that. I linked to an open source CRM option, and there are others, but your current investment is essentially a loss. As far as hiring a coder, well, you got burned in your current situation. He may not have been malicious, but he certainly did not understand how to choose the proper tool for your needs. If SugarCRM does nearly everything you need, then you'd probably be raving about how it's cheaper, more reliable and more powerful than your SAAS options all in one. On the other hand, you pay for the expertise for someone to set something like that up well, though, so there is a tradeoff. If you're dead set on SAAS, be sure you have a way to get your data. If they don't offer at least a set of csv's containing all of it, walk. At least with them you can recover.