Overpopulation: Will this finally be the cause of ww3?

Folks, it seems like pretty soon in the near future we will most likely have a problem in which population will be too great for world resources to handle? How do you control overpopulation? AS a person of faith its almost like 2 sides of me wrestle with this all the time. Will this be the final reason world war 3 starts?

 

WWIII, if it ever happens, will be as a result of competition for land and resources. That is exactly what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan today. It has little to do with bringing freedom or democracy but securing US oil interests. Overpopulation exacerbates this problem. However, I am convinced that the world has adequate resources and through technology, we can provide for a couple more billion. It would take quite a bit more planning and cooperation though.

 

But what would happen after a few more billion?????? This is the question.

 

It is feared that we have already crossed the limits of acceptable population limits. Scientists call it Population Overshoot.

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Here is how our planet's human population has exploded in the last 200 years, after the discovery of oil and steam engine.



It is not sustainable... Once oil decline sets in, there would be major wars for the control of the remaining scarce resources.

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For more information, please check out -->

1. Population Overshoot & Oil
2. A Depopulation Explosion?
3. Why Decline Matters

 

gauharjk, great charts!!!! and this is whyI question even hardcore catholics in my own faith as to how can they keep ignoring this problem. I know of a few people that just wanna keep having more kids because god said its their duty to go out and multiply. God also gave us brains to think rationally and moderately. I have respect for all faith and as a believer in god I can understand wanting to please god but would god be pleased if we have 2 billion starving people in this world because a few ignorant people to words out of the scripture to an extreme?

 

I completely agree with you. I have exactly the same tale. Children are God's gift they say... have more children. In my part of the world, people are poor and illiterate, and they don't think rationally. You thought 3 or 4 kids is too much... at my place, it is common to see 7 or 8 kids... and they all belong to the extremely poor folks.

Here is my observation...

Religion is not the only rationale for it. The more children poor folks have, the more hands there are to earn. Children don't go to school and start working at a very young age. That brings in extra income for the family. In villages, children work in the fields. They still have to do most of the farming manually here.... no machines.

But it is being pushed too far. I am worried about the future...

 

I agree with the above sentiments and will add capitalism also calls for more and more people in order to succeed as it does.

The aim of the capitalist is to make as much money as he can, usually by selling as much as he can. A forever expanding population growth means there's more people to buy, and more money to be made.

For instance, once everyone has a house the builders will be out of business so they'll need more people (population growth) for the industry to survive. Once everyone has a car, the auto-industry declines so they need more people so the industry can survive. Once everybody has a TV, the television industry declines so they need more people for the industry to survive. Once everyone has a hairbrush, the hairbrush industry declines etc. etc. with all things except food.

As for population growth causing future wars, possible yes, but I think that's why the universe is there, not only to rape & pillage its resources too, we'll probably fill this planet by the end of this century or next and have populated other planets by then, so the cycle continues. Many aspects of the Star Wars movies are not that far fetched.

What would happen to capitalism with a declining population? Industry will fall apart as people will be using their existing items & infrastructure rather than going out and buying a new one. Many manufacturers will be out of business.

The bailout is a perfect example to show you the governments wont let this happen and will fight tooth and nail to ensure a forever growing population.

 

As far as I know we already have 2 billion starving people in the world. The question you originally asked is one I have studied personally. The answer that many learned people keep giving is "We need the planet but the planet does not need us."

Basically if we over populate then we will start dieing out for many different reason. I would personally consider disease to be the main killer and after that war but earth will carry on without us

As for the religious side of things (I was born Catholic) I wouldn't listen to the church or the bible as far as I am concerned there both to self serving to be trust worthy. Especially when it comes to things like population control.

Has China got there population growth under control yet? If so we may just have to adopt there ways and only allow one child per family.

 

Actually, Capitalism requires repeat customers as well as new ones. Once everyone buys Microsoft Windows 2000, they sell XP, and so on and so on and so on. Furthermore, there are enough "new customers" in emerging markets such as China to satisfy most capitalists alive today.

If anything, as Capitalism takes hold in a nation, you will see the average number of babies per family drop. More working hands within the family only really works for families on a farm. In an educated culture, its more college educations to pay for(I'll exempt the Palestinians living in Israel who are busily breeding in an effort to Democratically overthrow Israel).

WWIII is already under way, and it doesn't have much to do with population. We don't need a war to deal with population control, as demonstrated by Africa. With an average of 20 babies per family, famine and disease seem to do a pretty good job, if we'd just quit sending them food and medicine.

 

Yeah, then we need to figure out a way to limit these out-of-control populations in Europe and the United States.

 

I agree. But thats the way the world works... and it is not sustainable.

Check this out.... "The Story of Stuff" -- Excellent video on how things work in the world.

Retailing economist Victor Lebow said in the 50s...

Source: http://www.davidsuzuki.org/About_us/Dr_David_Suzuki/Article_Archives/weekly07190201.asp

This is an interesting side topic. It has been discussed and debated forever. Will we be able to leave Earth and colonize other planets? Do we have the resources to do so? Probably not...

It gets interesting...

Check out Nick Bostrom's piece in Technology Review, Why I hope the search for extraterrestrial life finds nothing.

Bostrom's provocative thesis is this: once we find evidence of primitive life elsewhere, we've narrowed the likelihood that the Great Filter is behind us, and increased the likelihood that it is still ahead of us, in some unknown disaster to come:

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Please check out the article --> Solving Fermi's Paradox

Well... Capitalism works best when resources are scarce. Capitalism simply means best possible allocation of scarce resources for productive gains. In the current financial mess we face, money was plentiful. the Federal Reserve Bank created enormous amounts of money out of thin air, loaning them to other banks at 1% interest rate. This is what caused the problem. Seemingly unlimited amounts of money supply. This resulted in mis-allocation of resources, causing the problem.

But if money is hard to come by, and resources are scarce, then CAPITALISM works best...

 

I'm not arguing whether capitalism works best or not here, just saying it calls for population growth so don't expect the world to get smaller.

I agree it needs repeat customers and software is a good example of that but (most) manufacturers that produce general goods cannot sustain without more people to sell to. Once eveyone has a hairbrush we don't replace them often.

Any business on the stockmarket needs to constantly increase its profits (by law) in order to increase the share prices and to do its best for shareholders so apart from further refining their processes, the only real ways to do that is to increase their sales by value adding their products (more resources) and SELLING TO MORE PEOPLE.

Okay, new markets are opening up in China, Africa etc but there has to come a time when they've been tapped as much as they can. No matter when it happens, my point was there MUST be population growth in order for capitalism to survive.

I'm on dial-up so videos are out for me unfortunately
Your Victor Lebow quote sounds all too real...

I've always seen capitalism as a giant userper of all, please explain your angle.

 

That is true. Capitalism needs a continuous supply of new markets. As Earl Nightingale once said, "If a company is not growing, then it is dying." Growth is an uncompromisable component of capitalism. But we can deal with it, coz Capitalism is a self-correcting system...

Capitalism is a form of economic system, just like socialism or communism.

In this system a individual is free to use his capital in any way he pleases to provide products or services. Thus, capitalism leads to a very efficient allocation of resources, because an individual would invest his capital only in products or services where he can get productive returns. Thus, capitalism is a sustainable, self-correcting system that promotes growth in the standards of living of people living under it...

Why Optimum Allocation of Resources is Important?

The main problem facing mankind is scarcity of resources. So, there should be a system that allows us to automatically allocate resources optimally. How can one determine the amount of labor to be dvoted to production of milk, steel or furniture? How do we determine how much money and land should be allocated for a certain activity? The answer to all this is Capitalism...

Capitalism is sometimes called the private enterprise system because the private businessman stands at the center of the allocative process. As he seeks to maximize profits, he indirectly allocates scarce resources in a better way. Market forces compel him to increase production of some commodity, while decrease production of other. In this way, wastage is reduced and an efficient system is evolved.​

In a capitalist system, consumer is King. Competition drives prices down and improves the quality of products & services. This cannot happen in any other environment where a business owner is not free to make decisions.

Ultimately the preferences of consumers determine what is to be produced, rather than arbitrary decisions taken by a government beaucrat.

Check out the article "In Defense of Free Market Capitalism"

 

Out of control populations in US and Europe? I'm assuming you were joking but you are aware that the US population would be shrinking without immigration, right?

"Build a better mousetrap(hairbrush?), and the world will beat a path to your door." Normally, when market saturation is reached with a product that will not be improved anytime soon is reached, company's get growth through consildation (Hairbrush Company X buys out Hairbrush Company Y and Z). For almost all products, you will still see people trying to take some market share by introducing a better version of those products. Look at the market for razors for shaving. Triple blade hand disposable razors? Please. Coffee has been selling in the US for a very long time, with a fairly stagnant population, yet you see more and more Starbucks appearing.

Applying Moores law to the number of technology devices that will be created in keeping with the availability of new technology, I don't think capitalists are going to run out of new things to sell anytime soon. Having new population with money to spend on consumable goods definitely helps capitalism, but I don't see it being a requirement.

 

What's the average number of kids in an American family?

I must agree there, shit was I amazed when I saw them selling monkey farts for the mobile ringtones lol. You can sell anything if you try!

What worries me about capitalism is when money is the almighty goal then you have cigarette companies peddling death, oil companies peddling death, industry fucking up the world and nobody's willing to admit fault/blame because there's too much money involved.

Over population would be fine if it didn't come with over pollution. I think capitalism has a lot to do with that.

I agree it brings prices down but is that seriously a good thing? So the prices of cars decreases, more people buy them, more oil required. The prices of fridges go down, more people buy them, more Co2 released. The price of steak goes down, more people buy it, more cows farmed, more cows farting to add to global warming.

Capitalism is good to enrich the selfish but how is it good for the whole?

gauharjk, I did read the lot. There was nothing that convinced me that capitalism is the answer, in fact it saying things like ipods are scarce was silly to me. If you were to order a coupla billion of them, you would receive them all in time. That's all supply and demand stuff so is not correct and made the author look foolish to me.

 

well I'm from the second most populous country in the world..... my countrymen have taken various steps to control .... one such control measure is that... a couple should have only one child,but that didn't work..... still India is fast growing in terms of population.... I strongly feel that we may run out of necessary resources in the future if the fast growing population is not controlled.... If not now then we can never......

 

You are a fool. Humanity will survive. Necessity will force some countries to colonize Space. Earth is not the only home. If Columbus didn't cross Atlantic what would of happened? Star War type of War is very predictable in the next century as colonization of North America & Africa are product of human curiosity to venture. Who are you to say Indians need to control population. Rise of population is the rise of civilization. Next frontier is Space. Whoever ventures into space, be it China, Russia, America, EU or India will force next colonial war in Space. Next great war maybe with China vs India out necessity over space and desperate people willing to go to space for better future as some Europeans have when they left for North America.

 

Hey don't talk on imagination..... It is still not certain that life is completely possible on space.... And we have enough population to rise our civilization.... Your are one of the very few Indians who says growth in population is good..... That's absurd...

 

Overpopulation is a myth contrived by people who want eugenics, forced abortions and forced sterilization. Basically the claim is: there are too many people, so let's kill off the young, old, sick, disabled, (and anyone we don't like), and all our problems will be solved.

The truth, of course, is we produce far more food than the population requires, but because of wars and corruption some people do without.

Google 'overpopulation myth' and you'll find dozens of resources debunking this.

 

Bush, we share some of the same thoughts. I loathe government. I loathe the irreversible spoliation of the only ecosystem we have, more. I hope the below excerpts provide some useful food for thought. They are from a useful discussion I had with Will Spencer (I think it was a good discussion - I appreciated having it with Will):