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DMOZ and Extreme Pornography

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by dvduval, Jun 16, 2006.

  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #361
    That is an insulting cop out. You know nothing abouit me, my profession, my professional reputation or my colleagues. Indeed, based on the number of both colleagues and clients who seek out my counsel, I would say that my reputation is more than intact.

    Judging from your slimey tactics here, I have little doubt that you cannot claim the same, whatever your profession is. I at least have the guts to stand here as me. You hide behind anonymity, like any other coward.
     
    minstrel, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  2. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #362
    Agreed!

    I don't know about anyone else, but this latest distraction is making me terribly uncomfortable. Iamwhoiam, you are here with complete anonymity and only a dozen or so posts and make these extremely nasty personal attacks on minstrel. Why would you do that? Yes, you're trying to hide behind the veil of posting an apology but honestly, from the point of view of someone not involved with this attack, you come across as merely using it to take a stab at minstrel. You lack even a hint of sincerity.

    What's worse (for me personally) is that your attack seems like it's possibly coming from a DMOZ editor rather than from someone in the same field as minstrel. IMO, your tactics here are helping no one and you're making yourself look very bad.

    I was hoping you would stop after your initial post, which is the reason I sent you a message telling you that you sounded like you were making a threat. Unfortunately you don't have the good sense to realize you're doing a bad thing. You're also violating the TOS of this forum. I'd report you if I knew how.

    You are off topic, out of line, and you seem blinded by hatred. Please stop. :(
     
    compostannie, Jul 4, 2006 IP
    minstrel likes this.
  3. accountability

    accountability Peon

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    #363
    But it seems those TOS are very selectively enforced - so I'm left confused

    One of them says - Personal attacks against people, or sites will not be tolerated.

    Yet there is a consistent and repeated posting of attacks and bullying against DMOZ editors and in this forum, and there appears to be no attempt to stop that. At the same time, if I step out of line one little bit, I get a warning sent to me.
     
    accountability, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  4. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #364
    Yeah, I got a warning the other day as well - apparently they are used very selectively. ;-)

    Yet minstrel claims that it's editors that are the ones always reporting posts...hmm...
     
    sidjf, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  5. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #365
    Everybody is getting it. You can thank orlady and other editors for turning this place to kindergarten. Since it is no longer possible to answer to attacks then everyone has to report the posts.
    I suppose this was part of the plan to turn DP to another resourcelesszone but I don't understand if they like that kind of censor environment so much then why they don't just stay there. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  6. ishfish

    ishfish Peon

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    #366
    I haven't... though I've gotten warnings at other places.
     
    ishfish, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  7. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #367
    You are an editor, so DMOZ gang have no reason to complain about you and you are honest about your opinions and in these discussions, so other don't have anything to complain either. ;)

    Most people here, have nothing against a person that has a different opinion, as long as that person is honest about it. :)
     
    gworld, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  8. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #368
    Infraction-wise : I've had two strong warnings in this thread alone ! That doesn't bode well for my future here by the looks of things...

    I was completely unaware you could report posts though , I just thought the mods watched over things ? Is it only reported posts that warrant warnings or is it a 'general' moderation thing ?

    Ps
    I think there are more than a few here posting exactly as above.
     
    shygirl, Jul 4, 2006 IP
  9. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #369
    I once had a hope that it would be possible to somehow build some kind of bridge between editors and the outside world in forums such as this - constructive dialogue and at least some sense of understanding of each other's positions. By listening to the complaints. But whilst thread after thread turns into the same dialogue on 2257 and how evil and corrupt DMOZ it is really getting very tedious and boring. The exact same accusations are trotted out time and time again, the same explanations are given over and over, even the game of twist the editors' words gets boring. Is anyone actually closer to understanding the other side?

    The threads on Adult content seem to be the ones that bring out the insults and personal attacks - the image galleries are 0.5% of listings, 0.5% of editors. At the end of the day it is not worth 75% of available effort and discussion time.
     
    brizzie, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  10. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #370
    As I said before, brizzie, DMOZ has a cancer in that part of the directory (although there are also obvious problems with other areas as well).

    To try to say we should ignore it because it is such a small part is a recipe for death.

    If you found a few cancerous cells in one of your lungs, would you ignore that because there were so many other healthy cells in your body? of course not - because those few cancerous cells, if ignored, would eventually kill you.

    That's what DMOZ is facing.

    Seek out and eradicate the cancer or you will lose the entire directory.
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  11. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #371
    Not ignore but at the same time don't let it turn into the be all and end all. The extreme sex sites this thread is about are *mostly* ugly warts not cancer cells. In a project where resources are a premium I cannot see any redirection of effort being made towards dealing with ugly warts that 99.9995% of people, including editors, are unaware even exist let alone form a pressing issue. Personally, and I recommend this approach to others, I exercise my free will not to go looking for shit eating and tampon snorting sites and I guarantee I will not accidentally find any in DMOZ. And even if I do (I could beat the 50 million to 1 chance and win the lottery jackpot tomorrow too) I will further exercise my free will in not opening a link to a site that DMOZ tells me clearly contains graphic images of legal but deviant activities that will turn my stomach.
     
    brizzie, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  12. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #372
    No. If you believe that, or if anyone else believes it, you are dead wrong.

    The existence of those cancerous cells undermines everything that DMOZ was supposed to stand for. "The Best of the Web"? "Quality Sites"?

    See my blog article: Social Responsibility on the Net: DMOZ Declines.

    If you understand what I'm saying there, you'll understand what it is that DMOZ is facing. If not, so be it. From what I've seen, I don't think most DMOZ editors or supporters will understand or accept that as an issue and that's why I think the directory is doomed.
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  13. buratssky

    buratssky Peon

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    #373
    No vote for Adult.:mad:

    Votes for Isfish in Kids and Teens.:)
    Votes for gboisseau in Business.:)

    Overall its still Regional that Rocks.:eek:
     
    buratssky, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #374
    Thanhks for the cheerleading routine, burattsky, but it hardly addresses the problem, does it?
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  15. buratssky

    buratssky Peon

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    #375
    No it does not. But it sends a message to DP viewers and at the same time to DMOZ Editors that not all supports as what you call Extreme Pornography.
     
    buratssky, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  16. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #376
    I understand that, buratssky. I'm not trying to accuse you or brizzie or anyone in particular of supporting those listings. What I am saying is that he who sees a problem and either fails to understand it or fails to act against it or to correct it is part of the problem.
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  17. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #377
    I read your blog.

    It concentrates almost exclusively on social responsibilty in Adult areas within Dmoz. Highlighting the DP threads.

    Should Adult be deleted from the directory tomorrow, ( many editors themselves would feel no pain there)... would you be happy overall with Dmoz or not ?
    My personal feeling after reading is that your arguement is slightly slanted somewhat and not represenative of Dmoz, nor of it's editors as a whole. The title should also have been a little more honest and been something along the lines of "Social Responsibility on the Net: ADULT DMOZ Declines".

    I hear you about the suicide, anorexia listings. Another discussion which is not in keeping with the topic in this one.

    You also seem very worried about the concept of 'free speech' v's 'social responsibilty'. You should probably have elaborated and told us all exactlywhat you consider the rightful thing to do with these questionable sites/categories AND taken into account that sociologically, worldwide 'social responsibility' is extremely difficult to define, especially within a global community. Perhaps just as difficult even within a Californian one. ( Since you pointed out legalities are NOT the issue right ? ).

    It's extremely vague what you are actually advocating and glosses competely over what 'trampling on human rights' means when an editor lists a site you personally feel should come under the 'social responsibilty' umbrella. Whatever you think that means, you haven't defined it for us all very well.

    I love Sociology and studied it for many years... but I also know that any hypothesis put forward should always be backed up, point by point, by far more than simple personal opinion and pretty wording.
    We are talking about site listing practices v's the surfers own personal choices on what to click on remember ? Not editors themselves practicing tampon fetishes. I hope you haven't forgotten that.

    I personally think you don't give the adult surfer..as in old enough to drink, have consensual sex, get married, drive a car, bungee jump or participate in extreme sports, whatever... :rolleyes: anywhere near enough credit or freedom in their own choices of what they wish to do or not to do while online, Dmoz or otherwise.

    So if Adult went tomorrow Minstrel.. you would be ?


    Ps : I know, like a bad smell I keep wafting in... but I am genuinely interested in your stance on the above question re : 'Social Resonsibilty' and Dmoz's overall accountability towards it.
    And if you honestly beleive in your statement that if other people don't agree with you on points you have to make that automatically makes them part of the problem, then you are sadly very much past the point of valid discussion anywhere...
     
    shygirl, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  18. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #378
    I've told you at least twice before, shygirl. There was a time when I tried to help you understand this. I simply don't care any more whether you do or do not understand it. It is completely irrelevant to me.
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  19. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #379
    Don't dismiss me like that. You look like you're avoiding the questions.

    I asked you some questions on the personal statement YOU posted for us all here to read. At least have the decency to answer what I asked concerning it.

    If you're not willing to do so, then I suggest you refrain from foisting them all on us in the future ?
     
    shygirl, Jul 7, 2006 IP
  20. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #380
    How many times do I have to say it and how many ways can it be said, shygirl? You don't get it. That's fine with me.

    I don't feel a need to educate you or explain anything at all to you. If you don't like reading my posts, don't read them.

    I'm not trying to be cruel here. I'm just trying to explain that I'm no longer going to beat my head against a brick wall. Those who can understand what I'm saying do. Those who can't either don't want to understand or simply cannot understand.

    I'm fine with that.
     
    minstrel, Jul 7, 2006 IP