The sorry state of the Bush administration--from insider's perspective

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by earlpearl, Dec 10, 2008.

  1. #1
    I recently finished reading the third of 3 books on the Bush administration; State of Denial, by Bob Woodward. Previously I read the book on Paul O'Neil's term as Treasury Secretary during the first 2 years, the book by one of his former Press Secretary's, Scott McClellan, and most recently, the Woodward book on Bush's war effort.

    Woodward has published 4 books on the topic based on hundreds of insider interviews with critical players inside the White House, Dept of State, DOD, Intelligence Offices, and others. He additionally had hours of interviews with President Bush himself. The Woodward set of books ostensibly includes two that are favorable to the President (the first 2) and two unfavorable (the last 2). I'm going to read from one of the first two next; ie one of the books that is supposedly favorable.

    But the over lasting impression with which I was left was deep depression at how fucked up the administration was. This impression came from insider's at the highest ranks of the administration.

    With regard to Bush's leadership he was:
    • incredibly disengaged from any depth of policies
      surprisingly not intellectually engaged in issues
      ran the administration with politics over policy being the overriding concern
      allowed for an incredibly unfunctional DOD/Pentagon running the war in first Afghanistan then Iraq, operated by Rumsfeld, who ended up being hated by virtually everyone, including those who had been amongst his closest friends/advisors
      engaged in a method of decision making that didn't accommodate dissent or alternative ways of thinking

    On the plus side, IMHO, he had an approach that was "coach like" in focusing on victory. It appears to me that the decision to choose the Surge, despite massive internal advice against it, along with actions that accompanied the surge (Sunni's decisions to turn against foreign/Al Queda insurgents, Shiites under Al Sadr not engaging in massive fighting, and some secret program to discover and find Al Queda in iraq insurgents) resulted in an amazing current diminishment in violence in that nation. A more peaceful Iraq with a democracy may emerge.

    Overall, though, the internal workings depressed me with regard to a leadership that frankly seemed to not be even close to truthful with the US public.

    Now, I've been in many organizations. I know how fucked up any group of 2 people can do things, let alone a government of hundreds of thousands, let alone a war or two where all sorts of things can go wrong.

    Regardless, these 3 books, all by or from direct sources of insiders, paint an incredibly ugly picture, and one that depressed me.

    I'm glad the guy's term is over.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 10, 2008 IP
  2. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #2
    Be prepared for even more depression. That is, if Obama doesn't get indicted along with his corrupt buddys.
     
    hostlonestar, Dec 10, 2008 IP
  3. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #3
    A hands off management approach isn't bad, but I guess it needs great subordinates to function well.
     
    soniqhost.com, Dec 10, 2008 IP
  4. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #4
    What's going to happen?
     
    GeorgeB., Dec 11, 2008 IP
  5. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Soniq: I recall reading that his brother Jeb had always shown an interest and ability to pursue greater detail and that George W hadn't. The books I read seemed to indicate that W had no inclination to get involved or pursue the questions that would have given him more information.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 12, 2008 IP
  6. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #6
    I finished the first book by Woodward, of his 4 books on the Bush administration and specifically its actions with regard to wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Totally different from other things I had read.

    First off the attacks on the US occurred 9/11/2001. Very quickly the administration had evidence tying the attacks to Al queda....and of course Al Queda acknowledged that right away.

    Afghanistan, under the Taliban was home to Al Queda. Reportedly Al Queda paid the rulers large dollars to remain there. Afghanistan had no intentions of giving up the Taliban. Most of the world was in acknowledgement with the US after the attacks and many nations agreed to assist the US.

    Despite no plans or easy access to Afghanistan, by October bombing raids had started. By November 12th, two months after the bombing the Taliban were in retreat from Afghani tribal opposition, supported by US air power, aid from the CIA, and US technology. There were less than 500 US soldiers and CIA on the ground. In fact Afghanistan held significant opposition leaders to the extremist and fundamentalist Taliban.

    Compared to commentary from the other books Bush was totally engaged and involved in the effort to get a military response to Afghanistan. With no plans and no access to the country it took a significant effort to get access to bases, fly over rights and access to the tribal opposition.

    Really an amazing effort within 2 months. In the last few days, the US finally got some additional special forces on the ground using laser technology to guide bombing directly on Taliban military forces facing the Northern alliance troops and routed them with air attacks. This occurred after a couple of weeks of bombing and beginning commentary suggesting the military effort against the Taliban was turning into a quagmire.

    During the 2 month period, both Wolfewitz (#2 civilian under Rumsfeld at the Pentagon) and Rumsfeld, (slightly less so) suggested attacking Iraq. Bush wanted to keep the focus on the Taliban and Al Queda.

    This first book reads so differently from other books referenced above that skewers Bush and his administration.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  7. Jordan656

    Jordan656 Peon

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    #7
    how does reading 3 books make you an insider?

    does that mean I'm a Harry Potter insider then?
     
    Jordan656, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  8. earthfaze

    earthfaze Peon

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    #8
    The books were written by insiders.
     
    earthfaze, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  9. Jordan656

    Jordan656 Peon

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    #9
    yes but books are selective and reflections on an administration are very different to actually being in an administration itself i feel
     
    Jordan656, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  10. jodyq

    jodyq Peon

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    #10
    Thank you I am now LMFAO@ Harry Potter Insider. I have read the books and seen the movies, what would I be? LOLOLOL Isn't the definition of a insider basically someone who is in the inside of the group? Not a book reader. Good books though but your title and your post make me giggle. Seems everything is making me laugh today. Edit OMG I cannot read can I LOL never mind my post LOL I was going to erase it but what the hay?
     
    jodyq, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  11. earthfaze

    earthfaze Peon

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    #11
    Maybe it's something about the written word versus spoken, but I am just not getting where anyone but the writers and their sources are being called insiders. I don't think earl was claiming he was an insider himself. I certainly wasn't claiming he was, just that the writers are considered to be.
     
    earthfaze, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  12. jumpboy11jaop

    jumpboy11jaop Peon

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    #12
    well, the bush admin. is just buying time.

    Well, at least we know he can play dodgeball.
     
    jumpboy11jaop, Dec 15, 2008 IP
  13. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #13
    These books were either written by insiders within the administration (McClellan's book) or were written directly off of the direct commentary from insiders. One came from extensive documentation and interviews with the former Secretary of the Treasury, the other two by Bob Woodward came from voluminous interviews with people within the administration. These included direct interviews with the President, National Security Advisor's Secretaries of State and Defense, top intelligence officers, Assistant Secretary's, numerous military and civilian members of the Pentagon, and others.

    They are insider books because they come from insiders. (obviously they don't make me an insider)

    I found that interesting in that they paint extremely different pictures than what the Administration described to the public. At the same time they aren't educated conjecture, they come directly from the mouths of the people involved in highest level govt positions.

    Of interest, during the run up to the war on Afghanistan the Bush administration minimized its focus on Al Queda and Osama bin Laden.

    Its as if they didn't want to put all their efforts on capturing this guy, probably knowing how difficult it would be. In the end, their efforts at capturing him in Afghanistan were also not all out, probably allowing him to escape to Pakistan.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 16, 2008 IP
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  14. Lexiseek

    Lexiseek Banned

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    #14
    Hey, here's an idea...why not try looking forward? Bush is out..Obama is in.

    Let's focus on our new fearless half-white, half-black, half-socialist President.

    We as a country need to look forward to a glorious future. We can't keep dwelling on the past.
     
    Lexiseek, Dec 16, 2008 IP