North Korea admits to Nukes

North Korean Nukes, proof appeasement doesn't work. I'm sure they are grateful to Clinton, Carter and Albright.

I can see why many of the countries in NATO do not want to participate. Saddam bought them off with oil vouchers. France, Russia, German and China were the biggest beneficiaries of the oil-for-food program. It's no wonder they didn't want anything to do with it. What country would want to give up BILLIONS in "lucrative" oil money?

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

 

Don't get me started

 

We had the biggest public demonstrations ever seen in Europe. Millions of people demonstrating in each major city. Perhaps there may have been some moral reasons too?

I think trade was the reason the UK went to war. Look at the amount of US trade that France lost over this. The UK couldn't afford to loose that trade.

 

I won't discount there were people that did not want to go to war. Some people have strong objections, whether political, *religious* reasons, interests of their countries, etc. I take no issue with that. However, many of these countries stood to loose BILLIONS and some top officials in these countries were bought off with oil-vouchers.

http://www.cnsnews.com/Nation/archive/200410/NAT20041007a.html

Match these findings to the financial interest in the first link I posted.

I'm not aware of any trade embargos that took place against France. Nor have I heard that trade was the reason the UK went to war. Though I do recall one of of the party officials there (that was against the war) was on the list of recipients that saddam bought a vote with, using oil vouchers.

 

Interesting, but wrong.

Ever won a game of Axis and Allies without the United States getting involved? Think the Axis powers would have fallen without D-Day?

The US supplies the troops, the weapons, the military leadership and the rest of the world sends in token troops so they can say they were a part of it or they can say they supported us when it comes time for us to dole out foreign aid or set trade requirements.

Russia is a haven for gun runners. It's the closest thing we have to Mos Eisley today. (I may have misspelled it, but I'm referring to that retched hive of scum and villainy). The weapons for sale there are effective in guerilla struggles, but the reality is that they are every bit as effective as those russian cars are compared with the real world standards. You can build an ICBM from russian parts, but you can't build 1000 of them, nor can you be assured that it's navigation systems are accurate.

The EU is a force on the world stage, but it is one that can be effectively ignored if need be. Nobody is afraid of France - economically or militarily - and they don't want to instill fear either. Many EU and other UN countries didn't want to be part of the war, but they all want to be a part of the rebuilding effort - to which the US has always held a thoughtful position: Put in some bucks and don't stretch this thing out too long and you can come on board - even if you did stand against us.

I'm probably the furthest thing you can get from an Iraqi war supporter, but I can appreciate that this administration has handled things exceedingly well politically - especially considering the rocky start.

There is no world power that throws their weight around like the US because there is no world power with as much weight. There are larger armies and it would be a huge mistake to tangle with China for a bazillion reasons, but no other country is brave enough to play world policeman except for the USA. The policing isn't uniform accross the world, and there are plenty of crimes against humanity that go unchecked, but were it not for fear of displeasing the almighty giant, many more crimes would be occurring.

You are right on the MAD comment. So I'll give you that.

 

I was hoping someone would point that out. It was an Allied Effort and to diminish any one of their contributions by saying another was soley responsible for the defeat would be incorrect.

 

And in the next paragraph, I belittle the contributions of others. What you say is true... The contribution of any soldier - regardless of country - is great, and meaningful, in every battle.

Say what you will about the politicians, the men who so callously send children to their deaths. But the men, women, and children who sacrifice their lives in name of country and God are all to be revered. Their sacrifice is great. Their cause is more often than not selfless. Sending in but one soldier is a sacrifice too great for that soldier's family. We should not dismiss their honor so lightly.

I apologize to anyone I offended. It's easy to forget that there are people involved in war and not just flags.

 

Let me tell you again, if not for the Russian army Germany would have won WW2, you are the one in error with foolish pride.

If Hitler would have waited for winter to end to invade Russia he would have been able to roll over Russian troops, but instead he got bogged down by Winter storms and the Russians defeated Germany.
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http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/6916/ww2.htm

The Invasion of Russia: The Turning Point
The Civil War had its Gettysburg, the Peloponnesan War had its Sicily, and World War One had its Marne. So too does World War Two have its turning point: Operation Barbarossa and Stalingrad. The operation was ordered on December 18, 1940. Hitler wanted to strike at Russia because it would have given Germany the "space and resources" that the Germans needed. He also wanted to strike before they made an alliance with England. Since July, Hitler had been building up forces on the eastern front, and Romania and Finland had joined Germany for the attack on Russia. The only problem for the Germans was that Italy had already been taken and Germany was vulnerable to attack from the south. Russia figured out what Germany was doing and started to send them "gifts" and relaxed their grip on Finland and Romania. Despite this, Hitler decided to commence the attack.
Hitler began his four-year campaign against Russia, sending 7.2 million troops who caught the Russian army off guard and were initially successful. By July 17 Germany was less than two miles from Moscow, and by August the Russian casualties exceeded three million. The attack was stopped in early winter, which immobilized the tanks and made it difficult for troop movement in general. The Russians, on the other hand, were adept at moving large bodies of soldiers in the snow and started a counter attack that brought the Germans into a retreat by the end of the year. One out of five German soldiers were killed, totaling at 1.44 million casualties. Perhaps Hitler should have quit earlier, while he was ahead.
The next summer, Germany launched a new offensive with three main objectives: to capture Leningrad, join the Flemish army, and cut off Moscow’s oil supplies by crossing the Volga river. The attack made it across the Volga and soon reached Stalingrad. By June, Hitler was prematurely telling his advisers that "Russia is finished."11 Hitler made the biggest error of his life (I'm not counting suicide as an error- in fact, it was one of his best) and decided to try to hold Stalingrad. His army was quickly surrounded by five Russian armies and over 200,000 Germans were taken prisoner, the rest managing to escape back to Germany. While in Russia, Hitler was so angered by their resistance that he ordered the killing of all Russian Jews and anyone related to Communism and, seeing that Russia was Communist, that meant all Russians. Germans shot 50-100 Russians for every one of their soldiers killed. The total Russian losses in the campaign exceeded 17 million as well as 1.7 million Jews.



*EDIT* GOD is in the details, "Winter Storm determined the winner", not men or their might!!!!!!!

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You need to study history, even a kid could find this information online.

http://vivisimo.com/search?v%3Asources=Web&query=Russia+win+WW2&x=46&y=19

Do a search on these keywords and you can find it yourself.

Russia defeated Germany WWII

 

And only a kid would believe it the way you tell it.

"but the USA DID NOT defeat Germany, the Russians did."
to
"if not for the Russian army Germany would have won WW2"

Considerably different wording there. It was an allied effort Anthony.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0862012.html
http://www.daltonstate.edu/faculty/tveve/hist1112/wwiisym.html

 

From your infoplease link: cut and pasted...

On the Eastern Front Soviet armies swept (1944) through the Baltic States, E Poland, Belorussia, and Ukraine and forced the capitulation of Romania (Aug. 23), Finland (Sept. 4), and Bulgaria (Sept. 10). Having evacuated the Balkan Peninsula, the Germans resisted in Hungary until Feb., 1945, but Germany itself was pressed. The Russians entered East Prussia and Czechoslovakia (Jan., 1945) and took E Germany to the Oder.

On Mar. 7 the Western Allies—whose chief commanders in the field were Omar N. Bradley and Montgomery—crossed the Rhine after having smashed through the strongly fortified Siegfried Line and overran W Germany. German collapse came after the meeting (Apr. 25) of the Western and Russian armies at Torgau in Saxony,

 

Actually, if Hitler hadn't betrayed the soviets and had instead stormed britiannia's shores early in the endgame, he might have won the war, truly dividing the world into an Oceania, Eastasia, and Westasia. His losses in Russia were absolutely ridiculous. And TWO fronts never help your cause.

Don't discount the heavy russian sacrifice, which was well over 2 million.

 

David your figures are a little off, see this cut and pasted from post #48


***Russians. Germans shot 50-100 Russians for every one of their soldiers killed. The total Russian losses in the campaign exceeded 17 million as well as 1.7 million Jews. ****

 

I would disagree that TWO fronts never help a cause. It was an allied effort. We cannot erase history or write our own interpretations. All fronts help a cause. We're not far off on discounting the russian sacrifice. I would never presume to discount their sacrifice, ours, or Great Britains. That's the exact point I make.

 

no, the nazi cause

you misunderstand me

oh and about the numbers, wow that's shocking, I must have been recallling the jewish slaughter in russia, which was about 2 million. Wrong figure.
I'm too lazy to look this stuff up, I just remember what i can from Nova, Western Civ and AP EH.

 

Who is trying to change history? These are facts, without the Russians and God sending the Winter Storm we may all have been living under Germany and what would have been the power established by Hitler today.

So don't say that the USA won WWII because that is a big lie.

We did end Japan's involvement in it with the bombing, but it is sad to see folks around here making false claims about some trumped up greatness of the USA when the EU is certainly a larger power economically and will soon be as a military force.

I hate to inform the US citizens but we DO NOT control NATO or they would be in IRAQ right now.

 

we are a powerful nation, AC, the problem is, nukes confound the equation because in theory everyone loses.

and it's not like we are going to go to war with the EU any time soon....neither power has enough resources to conquer the other...

 

It matters not what Americans think, our own leaders are selling us down the tubes and will join this one world government.

Central Bankers, merchants and oil men control the game.

http://www.talkingproud.us/Eagle060704.html

One currency is coming, electronic currency, Microchips, don't leave home without yours........

 

Finally Anthony, now you get to the point.

You see, we're more on the same frequency then you think. You just haven't figured yet who's behind the New World Order it seems...

 

Don't go overboard TOPS, I knew before you were out of grade school, ever hear the wisdom that only a fool speaks his whole mind.

Don't get me started TOPS

 

You are, as usual. At least you've backed off your initial claim that Russia won the battle and now are sticking with a modified version of "without the Russions."

"we all may have been..." Speculation. Speculation is not fact. The war was an allied effort. Just because you hate your country doesn't mean you cannot recognize it's contribution. This was not a Russian/German war. It was a world war and there were other countries that contribute. The bottom line is, your assertion that Russia won it alone is incorrect.

I don't say, nor have I suggested anything other than it was not Russia alone (which is what you suggest) that won it. Don't turn the words around. If you think I've said the USA won it, quote me on it. I've not edited my posts.

Speculation. Just because you don't like the country you (supposedly) live in doesn't mean others are not proud of thier country. It may be your "calling" to "hate America first" as evidenced by most of your posts here, but not everyone feels the same way.

Would that be the same way you informed us that there was no official recount in ohio because the republicans prevented it? Maybe the "hate" you have, is just for your own country in general? That would be "speculation"