One of the sweet ironies I run across every so often when debating with religious folks is what must be a horrible internal battle they fight with over the "free will" we are supposed to be given by God when at the same time God can supposedly have effect on our lives. So my question is, if God can't affect your or anyone else's free will then what the hell are you praying for all the time. Your God is powerless.
Don't know what "free will" means to you but to us Muslims, God has given human beings "free will" or the responsibility of making our own moral choices. God knows is the Creator, He knows what has, is, and will happen. So we have to differentiate the two, one- God is the creator of ALL things including human actions, two- humans are responsible for their actions, which, they have been given by God, to chose between the good and bad. The good and bad are described in the books sent down by God and in the lives of the Prophets and the pious.
I read your post 3 times to ensure I wasn't taking the bolded part out of context.... Still doesn't make sense. Do you have free will or not? And if you do, what's the point of praying to God? Science can provide an answer for the causes of just about anything you can imagine that's physical. So the only thing left for your God to have control over is "free will". And if he can't even control us then he has control over nothing. So what do you expect to happen when you pray? Fact is we haven't needed to believe in magic to explain things we didn't understand since we discovered Newton's law.
Fact is we don't believe in "magic". We believe in a Creator. I didn't expect you to get this concept right away, maybe you won't get it, maybe you will in the future... But a scholar's words are better than mine, so I will post that to tell you what Islam says about 'free will'..
I beg to differ on the Science part, physical or otherwise, there are too many things that can't be explained by just science alone. Newton's law
if god know all things, then s/he should know if we want to make a left turn or a right turn, before we even think about it. so s/he already know all of our actions. so s/he already know that i should go to hell or heaven, long time before i was born. duh
I added on to your sentence there. I'm not sure whether or not you're trying to allude to the idea that because we can't explain something yet we should assume it is God at work? I'm not saying you are and I agree there are "some" things we can't explain. That is why I didn't say science can explain everything. I'll give you one guess.
well, I guess I would assume gravitation, but we actually do have an explanation for that-Einstein gave it to us. His three laws of motion, though (which describe various aspects of inertia), are totally without explanation- IOW, Why are those laws true. So it is misleading.
Ahh and that is where our 2 beliefs find "some" common ground. As an agnostic I believe in the "possibility" of a creator or creators. An original creator that started it all and gave us that initial spark of life. A being so advanced that developing the genetic code that all life is based upon was possible for. Where we part is where you continue to believe that that being or beings is still here watching over us and requires our worship. You believe that being just magically created all that we see before us just because he felt like it. That he created us just as we are now (in his image)..... Unfortunately for you we have scientific proof that we and all life you see before you today evolved from something else. There is evidence of evolution all around you. But your faith won't let you see it. You believe there is an all powerful being that favors only the people that follow your particular religion. A magic being. But you rely on what you've been taught and snake-oil salesmen dressed in religious robes to tell you what he wants. And let's not get it confused. There is a concept here that YOU are missing. When I say magic, sure I am mocking you, but a person able to think for themselves and not dealing with impaired judgment clouded by lifelong programming would understand that anything we can't explain or that's beyond our ability to fathom could technically be called "magic". David Blane (a famous magician) can "levitate" right before your eyes. Is he God? Is it "magic"? Technically yeah, it is magic. But in reality we all know it's a trick. An illusion that can be explained scientifically. We used to believe God controlled the weather.... through his "magical" powers. But thanks to satellites and our curiosity we now have meteorology and can track storms and know what causes them. Imagine what else we can discover as a race if we stop using the God-crutch.
So we agree that there is a Creator, nothing is impossible for Him. Ok. But you see where you go wrong, you question if the Creator is still there or not. If He is able to create the genetic code as your rightly say and which I believe too, then why should He not still be there? As for evolution, I don't know what evidence you're talking about, but as of today it's just a theory, debates happen all over universities around the world and I am not an expert on that subject yet as I am a first year university student and still learning. But I'll say this, anything that goes against what is written in the Quran regarding the creation of man, I will not believe in it. As for Magic, yes it exists but the difference is how you define it. Anyways let's not get into something off-topic. I don't know which cartoon you been watching but religion is deeper than what cartoonnetwork or those biblical programs show. It's not about God controling the weather. In the end, God has control over everything if you want to believe it or not and God has not forbidden us to advance as a human society, he has encouraged us to advance. But as for everything there is a limit which God has put in place.
then throw off the yoke of these limits- become atheist and you can decide exactly what or where your limits are, assuming you are the type of person who needs limits.
Here is the simplest example I can offer on this issue. Most people have employers. Think of any job that has an employer, for example, working at a restaurant. Generally, you are given instructions and you are expected to make the right decisions. Just because you are responsible for making decisions doesn't mean that you somehow have made your employer powerless. They still have authority. God is love, but he is also just. Something so many people forget.
Free will and the option to choose ones own destiny are already pretty much being choked out of existence, I don't think God needs to help it along any.
All of our space-time As a cosmic restaurant Lives waiting tables Sorry, but your post inspired me to write that haiku. Very poetic, but an ultimately useless analogy- Because the owner of a restaurant does not know what choices you will make.
The restaurant owner knows what your options are though. Your options are not infinite in life or the average restaurant.
LOL you make me giggle lol you are only as hopeless as you think you are. Prayer or no prayer lol and I have the free will to do anything look "smack" I just kicked my computer..... now I broke my toe. It is a catch 22. i have free will chose to do something and I got a consequence. Like Karma, goes around comes around.
You didn't understand my post exactly.. By Limits I mean the limits set by God. The limits which WE as human beings do not know of and by becoming an atheist, one will not know these limits anyway. There is a point where a human cannot pass. We may not know it and we may never find this point (limit) but that does not mean in any way that there is no Creator. For every life there is Death.