Precisely correct. And my point was just as silly as you asking how Bush would be affected But back on topic, I'm even willing to take my argument further. I'm betting I can prove that the folks saying they "don't know" do know that that is BS. Up against all the evidence I provide links to (which happen to all interlink and validate each other) what do you guys provide besides theories? Links to audio-visual proof that doesn't actually have any audio or video of his grandmother saying anything? So one might say, well what's wrong with theories George? It's based on our opinions right?... Problem with that is by stating that you "don't know" you're admitting that you don't have an opinion. So what does that make your theory?.... that's right.... baseless. It's not based on fact it's not based on opinion..... just sheer unfounded suspicion. All of these accusations don't JUST lack proof.... they lack even your own conviction. The ability to stand behind your accusations and say this is what I believe. The true definition IMO of empty rhetoric. But getting back to my original mention of taking the argument further. The reason I came to that conclusion is because in the balance of evidence that he IS a natural born citizen vs the theories hat he isn't, I don't see how you could rationally come to the conclusion that you "don't know" if you're looking at this objectively. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion. It is my opinion because I believe it.... imagine that (and all those points weren't necessarily directed at you Mia I just happen to be replying to your thread as I thought of them.)
No, that would work for me Thats actually a very funny post, i laughed really hard after reading it. On a serious note, I'm not sure how many "nuisance law suits" he has going on right now, but this one is the only one getting national attention, and i think it deserves to be answered, by simply giving the court his BC.
He's as far as I know the first guy we've elected that has ever changed his name a few times, so it follows there might be a few identity related questions. No reason to pull out the race card... this isnt about color, it's about meeting the citizenship standards set forth in the constitution. Questions have been raised in the past about John McCain because of circumstances surrounding his birth, so again, not a racial issue, just the way the system works. I figure Obama's probably a legal citizen, though it's perplexing why he'd balk at producing the original doc to show it. I DO suspect the reason he won't release the college admission docs means is because he claimed a status that didnt match other docs. Wouldnt disqualify him, and people have lived with worse political black eyes, but if the candidate for "change" whose supporters think he built the high road turned out to be just another in a long line of scamming lawyers it wouldnt help his image much.
There is something strange about GOP nuisance attacks on Dems. The Starr special prosecutor spent years chasing every aspect of Clinton's life. Now it is starting with Obama. Hmmmm....George Bush. Arrested for driving while drunk. Smoked cocaine....read the McClellan book to see how he sidestepped that.....it reeks of the Bill Clinton...."I didn't inhale" line of bs. Was a rich kid, irresponsible drunk for much of his young adult life. Wormed his way out of active duty in the military, which would have probably meant going to Vietnam by probably using his father's pull to get into the Air Force National Guard. There were long lines of people trying to get into National Guard Units around the nation and in every state. It was a way to avoid service in Vietnam. Records show that Bush applied late. He almost assuredly got in because of special consideration, afforded the rich and powerful. All things considered, all of this stuff was in the background and essentially wasn't used during the Bush campaigns and during his presidency. Compare it to the endless investigations on Clinton. Now it is starting with Obama. Actually it went on all campaign. Again, its some kind of innuendo attack. Move on to more serious issues, folks. There is a recession going on, the chance of it getting very serious, rising unemployment, spending is way down, businesses are shedding people, there are 2 wars, Russia has become a beligerant power, threatening the West, and frankly we have a health care issue with 15% of the population not having health coverage (equal to the population of Spain) and health care costs that just have skyrocketed well beyond inflation for decades. The endless innuendo attacks are trivial. The majority of the voting population voted overwhelmingly against that type of mentality. Act on something substative.
Not used? Did we watch the same campaign? Dan Rather actually ran a piece that turned out to be supporting part of that with forged documents supplied by a guy that wanted Kerry to win, and the same stuff was touted all thru the Gore2000 run too. As for Clinton, I thought the Starr stuff was overboard, but Clinton pretty much nailed himself by screwing anything in a thong and then going on national television with the "I did not have sex with that woman" thing which turned out to be obviously false. Guess we could say sex doesnt matter, but then we'd have to apologize to all the other political sex freaks thatve been nailed... and as we all know the GOP has a boatlaod of 'em that have been caught and discredited over sex scandals. Obama himself got into office earlier by getting someone's divorce docs unsealed so the guy went down in flames of a sex scandal. It's never been one-sided, both parties have used the material provided by the other, and President-elect Obama has benefited from that system. ------ Added: To the guy that provided this pearl of wisdom on my rep... LOL... told you before... I'm a very in shape retart, not a fat one, but thanks for your continued interest. May I suggest a spelling lesson junior?
Rob: Dem's use it, but don't dwell on this stuff endlessly. That is my perspective. Imagine the 2000 and 2004 campaign's with as many innuendo attacks on Bush as on Obama this campaign. I agree with you on both points on the Starr investigations. It was overboard, and Clinton probably brought it on himself by screwing every lady in sight. Maybe we should get some fact checkers to do the research on the full volume of innuendo attacks, tho? As to the rep thing.....Geez, I thought it had stopped. I haven't gotten any in a few days from the anon courageous red reppers. Rob: I'd suggest a different avatar with you in the gym. It would change the nature of the anon rep attacks. Maybe they (him/it) will start calling you a stud retart or a buff retart.
LOL, that'd require getting me to step foot in a gym. Lug around 50 lb bags of feed, replace a few T-post fences, and the idea of working out seems redundant. I'll provide him a recent photo (look! 3 generations of retart!!!) so maybe at least I can graduate to "redneck retart". The tatooed retart is my son, just got outta USMC, and the mini-retart is his daugter "Reagan"... (three guesses whether my kid is a Republican... lol). Got a fax last night with "retart" repeated for 3 pages, but now that he knows his email address shows on his faxes I'm guessing Freethenoob isnt the culprit today. Oh well, whoever my admirer is... here ya go... please get the name right next time.
Awesome! You should join in the fun over here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=343767 Everything's bigger in TEXAS! One question for you. Do you know where Emory is? Most don't. My grandma lives down there. Don't mess with Texas!
Congrats, Granpa. Nice Pic. You are right. Field work eliminates the need for a gym. btw. In terms of innuendo attacks here is today's reference to Good Morning America (ABC) which had an interview with William Ayres; one of the innuendo attacks on Obama this year.....http://abcnews.go.com/gma check out the interview. The two knew one another. They are not close. they didn't "pal around". People will form different opinions on Ayres, I am sure. I was alive at that time. I remember the war in Vietnam and the protests. Ayres should go through regrilling on his past....but Ayres past is no reflection on Obama's activities, Obama's meeting with endless people, and his actions going forward. Personally, I have no qualms with protests against the Vietnam war from the past. I have no problems with Obama having relations with people who protested the war in Vietnam. I have problems with Ayres not saying one way or the other if he rejects the bombing actions by his group. I'm not in favor of those actions, or was in favor of them when they occurred. Would I meet with Ayres now. Sure, why not? Would you? If no, why? One other last thought on the innuendo thing. Isn't it crazy.....rumours from the McCain campaign from sources that won't reveal themselves are flying around Palin; referencing Africa, that she was a diva, yak, yak, yak; all kinds of cr@p. Its so built into the mentality of the pols on the GOP side that they can't stop themselves even after the election, and are using it against one of their own. Its bizzarre!!!!!!!
Actually I still think their relationship is closer than advertised as they spent 4 or 5 years coordinating the dispersal of huge sums of cash for the Annenberg Foundation. It was mostly misspent... it was supposed to be used for kids educations and instead it went to leftwing groups and the schools were instructed to coordinate with them. The result was that after 4 years and huge sums of money Obama was roundly criticized by the board charged with oversight because the schools that supposedly recieved help had no visible differences in test scores than those that did. Money should have helped kids with their math and science and was instead politicized and thus wasted. Anyway, that is heavily in line with Ayres writings, so if Obama came up with it on his own and it wasnt because he was working closely with Ayres, it is highly coincidental that they knew each other mostly in passing. As for Ayres, no, I wouldnt shake his hand, work with him, or enter his house. He was on the run for 10 years from the FBI not for protesting, but for setting bombs in the Capitol, a police station, etc. The one that blew out the side of a building and killed his fiance was intended for a dance with non-com officers and their dates. The only thing that separates him from Tim McViegh is that McVeigh was successful in his attempt and didnt have a rich dad to get him off on a legal technicality. If you ask yourself would you be cordial to McVeigh and the answer is no... it should be the same for someone that tried to kill US Military personel simply for being in the service of their country. Ayres wasnt just a protester, he was an attempted murderer that got off scot free. It wasnt but about 4 yrs ago he had his photo taken for a magazine standing on a flag I once took an oath to defend. Ayres gets no respect from me. Pic 1: Bomb intended for military dance. Exploded prematurely. Pic 2: Ayres showing his degree of respect for a flag many men have died defending
I thought you were talking about Obama??? A=Obama If A<>citizen by birth then A = embarrassed If A=citizen by birth, then A<> embarrassed.
Rob: I'm going after this post. the Annanberg Group is funded by Reagon Republicans. They passed judgement on Ayres and put him on their board. Imagine that. People who oversee the board, rock ribbed GOP members endorsed Ayres to determine how to spread money for education. I acknowledge one thing. Ayres should come clean on the bombing thing. It wasn't fully addressed in that interview. He is the one that needs to speak directly on that issue. Yep....I wouldn't give McVeigh the time of day. If Ayres said that he approved now of the efforts to bomb and kill Americans I'd view him as I view McVeigh. He got off. He got back into society and has followed a path that gives him credit. He got picked by the Annenberg group to decide how to spread funds. Did he have a rich daddy? Don't know anything about it. Frankly, if you so hate Ayres I'd question the Annenberg folks for putting him on their board to distribute funds. They are the ones that had to know of his past, evaluated his more current activities and then gave him the credibility to be part of that board. Still, the fact that he and Obama know one another says nothing about Obama going forward. As a realtor how many thousands of Americans have you met? Ever sell a house to a scumbag? Do you review the history of everyone who wants to buy or sell a house? To me that is where the innuendo and guilt by association attacks lead. How can you review every person every candidate meets and then try and create an attack around that meeting or sets of meetings.
Fair enough indeed. But this isn't about his name, though that's interesting. I wasn't aware he'd ever changed his name a few times. His birth certificate says Barack Hussein Obama and that's what we call him today. I'm not aware of any name changes in his past but I'd be interested to read about it. Perhaps another thread? I was honestly a bit worried people might take it that way. It's arguable you could read my post as me "pulling the race card". All I can give you is my honest intent. My intent was to make the point that by virtue of the requests being made and his integrity being questioned without a coherent reason, he is being held to a higher standard than President or candidate in history, and he happens to be black. It's the perception that anyone on the outside looking in, especially anyone not well versed on the facts of this matter might take. Here we are with a historic election of a black president and the first thing we want to do is basically accuse him of lying about his birth place? I say it would be a "sad sad" day because I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I wouldn't be "proud" and tout it as a great day in our democracy and the beginning of (hopefully) a change in how the world sees us as Americans after the past 8 years if the news around the world showed us questioning his birth place in front of the world. Not only that but how incompetent would our government look? Then he produces it, the apologies flow in, and what are we left with?... Nothing but questions about why we even forced him to do it in the first place and why anyone ever took the accusations seriously. Sure you can be suspicious and of course it doesn't have to have anything to do with his skin color. An internet rumor started and actually caught on to the point where a court case was filed. Fine.... but then, after having viewed the facts for yourself, all the same evidence and statements that I have, I'm having a hard time understanding just what it is that people are suspicious about. So I asked..... All I got was "I'm suspicious" and "I don't know". I fully agree. And again you figure he's "probably" what he says he is but might have a little doubt. All I am asking is what's causing that little bit of doubt you may have left over. And unlike yourself, there are people who take it even further. Not only can they not say (as you just did) what they believe, but they can't even tell you what it is that they would consider proof. We've argued for pages and pages about the vault copy of his BC. And oh that's really all they wanted.... but when I pointed out that the Hawaii dept of Health would be the ones issuing that vault copy and oh by the way they also happen to be the same people who already came out and verified the one we've already seen online is legit.... suddenly they want to interview doctors and hospital records... I can only give my opinion on that because I'm just another political junkie on DP that likes to debate n such. But that long post I made that you are referring to was my guess at one of probably a lot of valid reasons. It's flat out insulting.... But I ask that you remember that this wasn't Obama blowing of the American people asking for his BC. This was this Berg character trying to attack his character in the middle of the the campaign. If there were a waive of concern across America where the majority of Americans were concerned about his birth location with good reason. Then I'd say he owes it to the American people. And in fact you name the time and place and I'd be out there right beside you with a picket sign demanding he cough it up! It wouldn't indeed.
We can't bend the Constitution for Obama. The US is a country of laws and instutions. America was founded on a constitution and not popular opinion or mob rule ('waive of concern')
Ironic you say that. Because had Obama bent any rules he'd be in trouble right now wouldn't he? Looks like in this case our laws and constitution worked out just fine.
There isn't any mechanism in place to verify that a candidate is a 'natural born' citizen. Currently, the uS works on the honor system. If the vault copy of Obama's birth certificate is kosher, why isn't he releasing it?
Its one of two reasons, either he wasn't born in Hawaii, or he thanks he is too good to be questioned. Either way, he's still just another rotten corrupt politician.
Many people are asking why Obama and the Democratic Gov of Hawaii refuse to release the original vault copy of Obama's birth certificate.
Could it be because he already released a birth certificate which was deemed to be a legal, valid document depicting his nationality by hawaiian officials, and anymore bowing down to the demands of conspiracy nuts would set a dangerous president where he will be expected to prove inaccurate every crackpot, bullshit theory that these sore losers can think up? Hmm? could it be that? Give it up, you lost. Take it like a man and try to retain your dignity, Well, What shred of dignity you have left.
Yup, you two have it figured out. Those are the only 2 POSSIBLE reasons it could be. I'd like to believe that you don't really think that those are the only 2 reasons it could be. But when you make a statement like that.... it's a little hard "Many people" think he's a Muslim too.... it's like the more you speak the more you lump yourself in with that group. If it were the Republican government of Hawaii would you be less suspicious?