Make all what go away? Super lunatics armed with teh power of the googles? What part of the state of Hawaii can release the vault copy any time do you NOT understand? Wow lol. You said that like you actually intended to answer the questions.... then didn't. That's OK, here they are again. Are you hoping that just maybe... his vault copy will list a different place of birth than the electronic copy ISSUED AND CERTIFIED BY THE SAME PLACE?????? Are you stating that maybe when the state of Hawaii came out publicly and certified that the electronic copy you see here is legit they just FORGOT to mention that... oh yeah by the way, block #11 on the vault copy we have says AFRICA!
You're using links from factcheck.org as proof. Factcheck.org is hardly unbiased. Both Obama and William Ayers sat on their board.
So the factcheck.org PICTURES of the birth certificate are fake bogus? Because they are biased (they're not but I'm humoring you) that means they made fake birth certificate photos? Is that what you're saying bogus? bogus, read the questions again and tell me how the hell your post made even the SLIGHTEST attempt at answering them. (slow bus helper: I asked you about the state of Hawaii, not factcheck)
There's plenty of bias. The Democratic Gov of Hawaii has sealed the vault copy of Obama's birth certificate.
HAHHAHA bogus. Can you make it any more OBVIOUS that all you're doing at this point is scanning my posts for ANY excuse not to answer the questions? Too bad because here they are again Are you hoping that just maybe... his vault copy will list a different place of birth than the electronic copy ISSUED AND CERTIFIED BY THE SAME PLACE?????? Are you stating that maybe when the state of Hawaii came out publicly and certified that the electronic copy you see here is legit they just FORGOT to mention that... oh yeah by the way, block #11 on the vault copy we have says AFRICA! (note for anyone paying attention, yes I have been fully aware for the past couple posts that I pulled a Sarah Palin and called it AFRICA instead of Kenya)
But you're asking for a vault copy of his birth certificate from The Democratic Gov of Hawaii as proof?
It's not *sealed*. Birth certificates in Hawaii are not public information. They CAN NOT release it to anyone who asks. If they receive a *legitimate* request, like from a court, government agency, or Obama himself, then they will release it to them.
Pssst... bogus, Are you hoping that just maybe... his vault copy will list a different place of birth than the electronic copy ISSUED AND CERTIFIED BY THE SAME PLACE?????? Are you stating that maybe when the state of Hawaii came out publicly and certified that the electronic copy you see here is legit they just FORGOT to mention that... oh yeah by the way, block #11 on the vault copy we have says KENYA!
talk about bogus Whats up with all the questions about feeling? You expect us to deliver factual points yet you ask questions like "Are you hoping that just maybe..." "or " or Your not even asking for facts your asking for feelings and beliefs, none of which is relevant in this discussion. The facts are simple follow closely now, i don't want you to get lost... 1. Berg files lawsuit requesting obamas BC 2. Obama refuses and sends out his legal blood hounds to work as usual 3. Barack and his sister both confused which hospital he was born in 4. Obamas grandmother said she was with him at birth (or she was mistaken) 5. Two BC's were produced by Obama, after being reviewed by photoshop experts the two were deemed different, the first was even proven to be altered. 6. The only organization that has seen this BC during this mess is one that he once belonged to, with his terrorist pal (very trustworthy). 7. Even If Obama was a naturalized citizen at birth, he had to drop his citizenship to enroll into the Indonesian school system There are more but im tired of typing. Now quit attacking ones thoughts, and refute the facts with some kind of real discussion, and not by calling names and speaking of tin hats. Lay off opinions ans beliefs and hopes. And be a big boy
I tried that remember. I asked several times for you and bogus to provide some evidence, proof, anything. You BOTH backpedaled and said that you only believe he may be hiding something. Want me to link to all the times you said you "believe" ? I am merely trying to establish that even you don't believe what you're saying because frankly it's all you left yourself with . Would you like for me to address all 7 of those points again and ask you to provide one shred of evidence that proves them? Because we're only dealing in facts here right? The problem is you CAN'T. Because all of those are theories and innuendos based on what you believe to be true. I say you "believe" them to be true because you don't have any facts. Even in your strongest point. #7 you say he "had to have". All I'm saying is prove it or give me a FACT to "refute" Pick an accusation and stick with it or admit that even you don't believe it.
The belief that i have, is only that there is reasonable suspicion present. That's what i believe. Im not FBI, CIA etc... But i know the smell of fish when its right under my nose, and with Obamas shady character and actions, its right under my nose. I nor anyone on this forum has the ability to launch the type of investigation needed to provide hard core evidence in this matter. Its hard to stick to one accusation when it comes to a man as shady as our new president.
You sure about that this time? Because apparently you didn't think he was a Natural Born Citizen before and now you are "starting to". We've gone over this, you and I. And I even accept your argument that you "don't know" whether the BC I showed you is fake or not. Fair enough. I happen to believe it's a little intellectually dishonest, but you said it so I have to accept it. But if you readily admit that you don't know anything, then what are you left with? I'll give you one guess. It's the word you bolded in your last post there. I don't need to be CIA to link to photo proof of his birth certificate. It's right there. The only argument you have against it is not in facts, evidence, or anything. But that Obama sat on their board how many years ago? Now prove me wrong here please..... but the only thing I can gather from that is that you are insinuating that they are biased. And if so what does that mean? Explain to me in direct uncertain terms what them being biased has to do with the photo evidence of his birth certificate posted on their site. Now do you see why I asked if you actually believe it's real? Because the only dispute you can make against it being the real deal is that it would have to be fake because they are biased. No? What else does them being biased mean? you see how ridiculous that is? I have no other choice BUT to ask you whether or not you believe it.
Let's stick to the facts Jack Why are you so worried that the Supreme Court may review the citizenship of Obama? Why do you oppose that Obama release the vault copy of of his birth certificate? Many people have doubts in the back of their minds including Obama supporters.
So your ok with a photo of the BC, that i have proven for fact can be manipulated in 10 minutes. Let me ask you, if this case was seen by the supreme court and Obama brought nothing but these photos, what would happen? The judge would laugh and demand the real deal. If its not good enough for a court of law, why should it be good enough for me? Considering Obamas number of National residences, i see a request for his BC to be presented to experts a very reasonable one. And the BC is not the only argument, ive stated 7 of them two posts ago. These are great points of reasonable suspicion. And yes, i see them as biased when it hurts Obama. Its not unreasonable that they will point out an Obama lie, or flaw here and there just to seem unbiased. But when i look at the difference in emotion, within there articles, when they speak of McCain, and when they speak of Obama, its obvious who they support.
I don't oppose anything. I simply question your sincerity in reasoning behind consistently claiming that it's Obama you should be going after. He has nothing to prove that hasn't already been confirmed by the same people you seem so concerned won't release his BC. But had Berg simply filed his case against the state of Hawaii instead of making it about Obama in the middle of an election (which was obviously his intent) this wouldn't even be a discussion. Yet he (and apparently you) are surprised Obama let his lawyers handle it while he continued on the campaign trail. What an evil lying man he is See that's the problem. You want to point out that it could be manipulated but when asked flat out whether or not you believe that it was.... you don't know You can't confidently hold up your photoshop job as if it were evidence then cop out when asked what it proves. They'd tell him to show the BC they took photos of and he would do so. So what are you insinuating? They took photos of a BC that doesn't exist? Let me ask you an equally silly question. Though I answer all of yours and you have proven your inability to answer mine.... What would happen when they ask him to show the one they took photos of? Would he panic and say OH SHIT I don't have one. Or would he just show the one they took photos of? In other words what is your point here? Because he'd show the same one they took the photos of. So unless you're trying to say that one is fake..... then it's the real deal and you're not making any sense. Apparently the experts don't see it that way? Else you and I both know all they'd have to do is tell the state of Hawaii to issue them one. Only, unlike yourself, they know that's silly because they have already verified it's a certified legit copy. So they are points of suspicion. They don't prove anything, they don't have to right? All that is required here is your belief that it is suspicious. Yet you are flabbergasted as to why I try to determine what exactly it is that you believe and try to get you to say it publicly so you can read for yourself how ridiculous it is. So you're unable to think for yourself? You can't look at the evidence they provide and decide whether or not you believe them on your own? The point is.... unless you are claiming that their bias led them to the point of faking his birth certificate, your accusation is baseless. You can't make an accusation that lacks conviction and expect anyone to consider you credible. Again you're trying to hold their alleged bias up as if it were evidence of something...... when you don't even have the balls to say specifically what it is evidence of. And that's with me giving you the benefit of the doubt that they are biased just because Obama was on the board of their parent company years ago.... It's called empty rhetoric and innuendos. That's extremely subjective. Obama didn't base his entire campaign on attacking McCain. So the VAST majority of the smears were directed at him. Which means they spend the majority their time defending their own integrity from desperate anti-Obama attackers. When they put up evidence the Obama attackers have nothing left but to attack them and their credibility. As evidenced in this very thread. It gets old, and is likely what you're sensing in their tone. I mean if they investigate and find the attacks against Obama aren't true then that's just what they find. What do you want them to do?
The point is, it is not a solid proof of citizenship, doesnt matter what i believe. Actually i can, along with other graphic experts as well. That is exactly the type of experts a judge would ask to review it. exactly, show the bc not a photo, like i said a photo isnt good enough. I'm saying they are not qualified to determine that what they were looking at was not manipulated or faked its self, or it could be his sisters BC, and then manipulated later as i did. I would hope he would produce his actual BC and end the questions. I believe its been made ptretty clear, you just have to pay attention. The point is photos of a BC would not suffice a court of law, nor does it suffice me. Im not saying its fake, im saying it could be, the one in the pictures could be anyone's and altered later. Look. Obama has lived an multiple countries, that alone should require at least a review of his birth certificate. they prove that there is reason for an investigation. And i have told you what i believe many times, lets try it again. I BELIEVE THERE IS A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST AN INVESTIGATION INTO OBAMAS CITIZENSHIP! GOT IT? I dont trust them, therefore i dont believe them, i could be wrong, but why should i trust an organization that he used to be a member of to provide evidence that Obama is an illegal alien? Im saying its possible, and thats it. Considering all of Obamas shady actions, i wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he and this organization faked it. I could be wrong, but its possible. I don't ask anyone to do anything except weigh the issues on there own in a reasonable open minded fashion. It is evidence that they will do anything to protect Obama. I may not have said it aloud, but most people can read between the lines. Its called reasonable evidence to suggest investigation Perhaps your right, but it doesn't change the fact they were much harder on McCain than Obama, giving me plenty of reason to call Bias, as i have.
Ok, reasonable evidence. Keyword there being evidence, but ok let's give you the benefit of the doubt and just say you have evidence.... Let's weigh your evidence against my evidence. Because though you're trying to dismiss it with the "bias" innuendos, we both now that the photographic evidence they have has nothing to do with bias. You can argue that they are biased, you can argue that their articles are written with an Obama slant, but you cannot argue that a photo itself is "bias". A photo isn't bias. It's just a photo. The only argument you can make with claiming bias is that they are so biased that they faked a photo. And we have established that you are not making that argument. So how is their bias relevant? We're talking about the photos. Now, as to the validity of the photos. Your argument is that the photos themselves don't prove anything (how you can say that and be serious at the same time I don't know) but again, giving the benefit of the doubt, the bottom line here is that you need further validation. But wait..... what's this. “It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,†spokesman Janice Okubo Hawaii Dept. of Health. So there's your validation... UNLESS you're going to go all bogart on me and claim they're biased too! (then claim that all he wants is the vault copy FROM THE SAME PEOPLE who just validated the copy you see... genius) There's also the Honolulu advertiser announcement of his birth in 1961. So as you can see, no one is asking you to just take the old biased factcheck.org photos on their own. They have 2 sources to back it's validity. Not the least of which being the endorsement from the issuing authority. So, is there any further validation you need to help move the needle for you from "I don't know" if it's real? Better yet, can you provide any proof to the contrary that is even remotely as definitive? Any at all?
We are back at square one. We know that Obama was born and has a birth certificate. On the other hand, we don't know where Obama was born. It follws that releasing the vault copy of the birth certificate will allow someone to verify the place of birth by contacting the hospital and attenting doctor. Obama doesn't want to release the vault copy of his birth certificate. Why?
Uhh... yah, we do. It says so on his birth certificate you just mentioned. What follows is that with all this attention the Hawaii dept of health is getting, they must have forgotten to mention his vault copy is different from the copy you see on the web. They forgot to mention the most important little detail. That Obama was born in Kenya according to their vault copy. Whew... good thing too because Obama ran his campaign for 2 years hoping they'd forget to mention that..... Because as you have made clear by this last post that even that wouldn't prove anything to people like you? Because the only people that believe he was born anywhere but the United States are wackjobs? You pick. LOL @ how you've backpedaled past the vault copy and now want to go do a full on interview with the doctor as well. Do the math bogus, a person old enough to be a doctor and delivering babies back in 1961 would be dead or on their last leg by now. Keep going though. Your argument is almost thin enough to be transparent. Then we'll see what you really think