Hey Scott, I'm not sure how old you are, but I'll bet you've had at least 12 years of "gays are our friends" crap shoved down your throat by the California Public School System. Not to mention annual gay pride celebrations in every city out there, not to mention, "Take your two dads to work day". Why wouldn't you think it was normal? Think about the values that your parents might have tried to teach you and the values that the State of California has taught you. Consider this: Brainwashing (also known as thought reform or as re-education) consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — beliefs sometimes unwelcome or in conflict with the person's prior beliefs and knowledge,[1] in order to affect that individual's value system and subsequent thought-patterns and behaviors. Source
At what point are you going to grasp the simple concept that people don't support gay marriage because they think it's "normal", They support it because it's between two consenting adults and none of our business what those two consenting adults get up to with each other. What part of that simple concept are you having trouble understanding?
You can support it for what ever reason you like. You are still in the minority. Using your logic, why not THREE consenting adults? How about FIVE? So then you must support polygamy as well?
Yeah, why not? Yeah i do. Why wouldn't i? I support anything which consenting adults want to do with each other that doesn't effect me. I see you are still having trouble grasping what this means.
In civilised society? No, not really. If you want to discuss this we can, But you have to actually make points beyond your argumentum ad populum. it's kind of how grown up dialogue works, There's a good lad.
You keep failing to see the points being made. Does majority rule constitute right rule? Should the government regulate morals or should it protect and serve it's citizens? Who do you think is going to get hurt if gays are allowed to marry? Your sensitivities?
What points do I need to make? You won't discuss the values that your parents tried to teach you. I asked you twice and you ignored the question, so exactly who's dodging what here? You've just decided that society should accept gay and polygamous marriages because it doesn't effect you. Cast your vote, fly your flag! I don't want to see American society move in that direction so I cast my vote as well. Honestly Stox, you can do whatever you like over there. If you want gay marriage in the UK, go ahead, but you have no voice in America. Maybe your time would be better spend getting together with some of your buds and practicing a little oral hygiene.
You tell me. You are the one pitifully trying to make a case, Or more specifically, Justify intolerance and bigotry. I'll help you out. Valid reasons for an opinion are none of the following; 1. It's what your parents believed. 2. Everyone else thinks the same thing I didn't answer because it has no bearing on whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry or not. But if you must know, My parents taught me the method of finding conclusions, Not what my conclusions should be. You obviously weren't taught to find the answers to questions you may have so you are stuck now, ill-equipped to think for yourself and ill-equipped to form your own opinions. It's no coincidence that the religious on this forum are generally the ones least able to explain and justify their opinions. I mean, If they had no thought processes when coming to their conclusion how on earth can they be expected to explain those processes. No, That isn't why i support it. Like i said; I support anything which consenting adults want to do with each other that doesn't effect me. It;s imperative that you understand that we are talking about consenting adults and what "consenting adults" means. Yeah, We know what you don't want. The trouble you are having in this thread is your inability to form a lucid, valid argument as to why you don't want it. You are right, I don't. But they do. And the strange thing is, If i can change one persons mind by what i say i have rendered your voice and your vote invalid.
Everybody toots. :] I've grown up with gay friends my whole life, from grade school to college and beyond. In my experience, the only people that treat them differently are the Christians who think Jesus was an idiot for saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and people who are just idiots to begin with. I used to be Christian and I used to have a lot of ... strange biases that I thought were idiotic even later on as a Christian. It's the same thing, we think about it for ourselves, grow up and move on. Sin is sin, everyone sins, so why treat a gay person worse than someone who had an impure thought today? It makes no sense. To clarify, this isn't a response to gay marriage but rather ''gays are our friends." Obviously they are and it's completely retarded in the truest sense of the word to treat them differently than any other person. Flowery people (not necessarily gay people) bug me, annoy me, etc. but I don't give a shit whether they get married or not. Personally, I'd prefer that idiots don't reproduce to make little baby idiots but that's not up to me. In fact, I'd never vote to take away an idiot's right to reproduce because I believe in what my family and our forefathers fought for to make this country possible -- "I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll die for your right to say it" or something along those lines. What ever happened to that? Is it still 'brainwashing' when you're getting rid of prior beliefs that were completely moronic? Look, I get what you're saying but you have to think about the context. I don't want my daughter going to school and being taught that that it's OK to be a killer or a bigot, but if they're going to teach her tolerance rather than to be an idiot for no reason, I'm all for it. If they start teaching her things I don't want her to know of or be a part of, I have the right to pull her out and home school her. Sure, not everyone has that right but if I didn't, I'd move to where I did. In fact, we're thinking of moving soon just to make things easier on my daughter. We keep going back to this but just answer me this: if a billion people believe something, does that make it right? It's not like gays are asking for that now. In fact, last I checked, the only ones practicing polygamy were religious men. I say men because I don't think I've ever seen any woman with several husbands, just men with several wives. Why do you think that is? Anyway, I've heard people make the slippery slope argument before (which, by the way, is a fallacy): "well, if we allow gays to get married, where does it end? when men and women can marry little boys, little girls, animals and plants?" Or how about "well, if we allow blacks to vote, where does it end? do we start letting WOMEN vote?" Oh me oh my. I had this conversation recently. I played the devil's advocate and asked "what's wrong with Polygamy?" to which the person responded "well, what's right with it?" Clever but it's not an answer, it's a cop-out. There are certain things we just reject because it's not a social norm. Just imagine if people started defecting from a theocracy and its persecution (social norm) to form their own country (America anyone?). In bigotsville? I hope so.
Apparently Bill O'Reilly agrees with me regarding my OP. He says "civil unions for everyone"- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8LHkje1lIs Oh the irony.
I don't really care if people choose to live a gay lifestyle making 'gay' music or going to 'gay' coffee houses. 'Gay marriage' is not a 'gay' issue.
You are right. it's also apparently an important issue for anyone compelled to stick their nose into other peoples business.
So much effort and energy being put into this issue and its almost as if we have forgotten the lie of a war we were brought into that killed hundredsof thousands of innocent iraqis and thousands of our own soldiers. As far as gay marriage, i just dont feel the word marriage was created for anyone but a man or a woman. Why dont they just call it some kind of union of togethership like i heard one other poster say. I dont hate gays or anyone that i dont know but it seems to me like gay people want the approval of everyone and want them to acknowledge that they union is called a marriage. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion and it was put to the vote. isnt this what a democracy is supposed to do? Correct me if im wrong. Our government is printing money like its paper and getting us into wars with lies and we are so gungho about this issue?
Because things change, It's called progress. Get on board or get out of the way. Are we really expected to believe that your concerns are with assumed definitions never changing? Is it all words that concern you? or just the ones that give you an excuse to oppress people?
oppress by not being allowed to get married?? wouldn't it be voluntarily oppression if you DO let them get married? why does everyone think marriage is so great? Ask any married couple they probably fuckin HATE it. myself i can't wait until people stop getting married altogether (along with stop having kids). Sure I believe gays should have the right to be miserable like everyone else, but dude unless it's the tax benefits we're talking I'm really not seeing the issue here
I agree with you on that. It's tax isues and all the benefits of marriage so that people can raise children. People that want a 'gay lifestyle' need to get a like anyone else and not depend on the government to give them handouts.
Stox who said anything about oppressing people. If they wanna hook up they can call it something else. Im not holding them back from forming their own union. a bit touchy arent we lol.