http://www.welt.de/english-news/article2643525/Effigy-of-noosed-Palin-causes-uproar.html Has anyone seen this story yet? What do you think of this? Should it be taken down or is it free speech? Do you think the situation would be different if Barack Obama was hung? Double standard? Discuss...
I think the implications of hanging an effigy of a black man would be entirely different. Should it be taken down? probably not. Should the person be congratulated for it? Probably not. Is it the same thing as hanging an effigy of obama? Definitely not.
The guy who lives there is probably arguing free speech. But it should be taken down, maybe if it was a skeleton or a scarecrow being hanged that would fit the Halloween theme. But not something that represents a real person It's sad to see all these Halloween stuff with the candidates, I will try to find it but I saw one with Obama ghost being hanged with the word Hussein on it. And one with McCain in a KKK outfit.
It's that person's expression and he has the right to it under the first amendment. Each person will interpret it in different ways, but in general it probably doesn't help the Obama campaign.
I think it's disgusting, and the person doing it is an asshole. I don't think it is a hate crime. I've gone round on this before, so I don't know how it will be received, but the very purpose of a hate crime is to stir terror in an entire population beyond the individual victim him or herself. Elsewhere, I said: Now, I guess it could be construed that this is a "hate crime towards neoconservatives," and I can see the point, if so. I am also not ignorant of the specific history of white on black lynchings in our country, however, and it is this legacy that informs the notion of terror, generally, in my opinion.
Of course it would be different if it were Barack, because he is black. The reason it would be different is because of what has happened in the black community in our country's history. It would have made national news and not just the local news. I don't think it's a hate crime. I think it's one of those, "I'll be funny" moments that others just don't see as being humorous.
No double standard. This is stupid & wrong whether it's Palin or Obama. I don't hear any serious Obama supporters cheering this on. I think this story is cover for the many many MANY more stories of McCain/Palin supporters acting inappropriately. There's your double standard.
If the mannequin were black and Barrack, it would be a hate crime. Since it is a Palin and white, its just funny. Hey, don't take my word for it. Just take a look at this thread: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1040655 Then look at the voice of reason here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=9319990&postcount=18 Anyone hanging anyone in effigy truly is an act of ignorance and hate! What's even more ignorant are those that draw a line for what is ok and not ok based on the color of a persons skin. Neither effigy should be accepted, nor go unpunished. And neither should be more or less acceptable than the other.
Just like to point out that my comments in the above post are from the very thread Mia is attempting to misportray now. Yes, anyone interested in a previous discussion on the notion of "hate speech," etc., please do go to that thread. All of it is hate. I agree. I can't agree that "it's all the same," since a holdup resulting in murder in a gas station isn't "the same" as a public murder of (a _____, name the group), by its very design, hoping to achieve terror beyond the individual act itself. Would anyone truly like to argue that an anonymous alley holdup and murder is "the same" as the dragging death of a black man through a predominantly black area of town? Really, if so?
Neither is acceptable (or more to the point tolerable, as free expression either exists or it doesn't), But that doesn't mean one can't be more unacceptable than the other. The implications of hanging an effigy of a black man has to be more unacceptable because it has what makes the hanging of the palin effigy unacceptable plus the connotations of a racist lynching ontop.
How exactly is something "unacceptable" become, "more unacceptable?" You cannot get "more unacceptable". Unacceptable is pretty much that, "unacceptable". Its kinda like saying "more better". That would be best. Could someone explain to me what the Positive, Comparative and Superlative Forms for "unacceptable" are? They are both equally bad. No more no less. They are both equally wrong, no more no less. As to free speech, a court would have to define that. Finally, who is to say the effigy of a black man (assuming we are calling Obama a "black" man) has any more racist connotation with regard to lynching than a white trash wishy washy small town Alaskan? eh? Both had similar intent, though one may derive a different connotation, they are equally wrong, therefore, equally unacceptable, unless there is a superlative for unacceptable I am not aware of.
You are right. They are both unacceptable. But, I personally believe as long as one is "more unacceptable" that the other, racism will continue to thrive. Remove the standard here. As long as we keep separating groups out by what's right, wrong, or more wrong based on race, we will never be free of racism.
If there were no such thing as "more unacceptable" the word worse would not exist. There, nice and simple for ya You said it yourself, both have "similar" intent. So to try to make an argument that they are the same is a little intellectually dishonest no? Especially given the fact that though we'd all like it to be gone, racism is still alive and well today. Would you argue that it's more or less likely that the person who hung the Obama effigy knew of the racist under tones he was symbolizing when he hung a black doll in his yard. Presidential candidate or not.
Wouldn't those connotations be left to the judgment of the onlooker? Assuming hanging an effigy of Palin isn't associated with racism, why should an effigy of Barack be? Those of you arguing stOx's point are so used to "protecting" blacks and minorities, it shows with your arguments. Why do you feel the need to protect them, don't you really think they're equal?
I don't think one is worse than the other. I think they are both equally unacceptable, regardless of either intent or perception. Its kinda like saying which is worse, someone shoots someone to do death or hangs someone to death. Its still murder. Since when are effigies of political candidate in competition of one another anyway? Because more often than not, the people complaining or "offended" are the ones that have racial issues, or a racial bias.
Oh please can we get one with Bush, and another with Clinton on it? Oh heck give me every dang president in history Except Roosevelt cause I heard he'd knock the crap outta you. To the hanging, its stupid, but you can't really do anything, just live with it and don't acknowledge it. You're giving that guy attention, more so like a publicity stunt. He gets what he wants
Says you. But I, and apparently a lot of other people because we have so many different punishments and laws for the different levels of murder, would disagree. You say it's "just murder". I say the person being hanged suffers a horrible and painful death on top of being losing their life or "just dying". Even being shot varies depending on where you are shot.